Korg MS-20 mini... THE BEST bang for the buck mono synth?

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i've recently started learning about recording and hardware again after years away from the topic and was trying to find "the best" entry level analogue monosynth. i started out researching the minilogue, but just wasn't liking what i was hearing. the arturia mini brute sounded a little grungier, in a good way, but i'm thinking that, based on features and the reputation of the original, the korg MS-20 mini at under $500 has to be the best bang for the buck monosynth because the MS20 is a classic, it's semi-modular and if nothing else, it has a ring modulator which is a "killer app" for me as it could be used for processing audio and is an effect i like.

i didn't get around to researching whatever the most recent incarnation of the bass station is, and remember it getting a lot of favorable press a decade ago, but i'm thinking the MS20 would be the best for my needs as it does attitude nicely, is duophonic, has MIDI built in, has 86% scale keys (i hate too big 1:1 keys as well as way too small 50% mini-keys) and possibly could be expanded upon with eurorack modules in the future. entry level eurorack "synths" are twice the price of the MS20 and don't come with MIDI. otherwise, i'd be interested in a studio electronics "ARP 2600" module that has less features.

what are your 2 cents? is there something i'm missing? something that sounds MUCH BETTER at a similar price point? is the MS20 mini toy junk? from what i can tell. it's the best 1st entry level step into analogue synthesis and a real bargain once you factor all of its knobs, functions, MIDI/USB connectivity and included keyboard making it useful for both bass/leads AND sound design right out of the box.

since nothing came up searching this forum, i thought i'd start a conversation about the MS20 which seems like "the best" poor man's ARP 2600. i'm not a moog fan actually... they always sound like bad 1970s sci-fi movies to me in all of the lousy demos i've seen so far where ARPs have a lot more R2D2 character and a classier sound to my ears.
Last edited by funktoons on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ignore this. i was just doing an edit and instead of the changes reflecting in my original post, the forum created a quoted post with the corrections. i've got to learn how to stop that spammy edit "feature".
Last edited by funktoons on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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When you could get one for under £400 it might have been. Now that they're closer to £550, not quite so much. I nearly bought an MS-20 new at £330 a couple of years ago, and now regret not doing so.
We do have one at work, though.

I'd say the MicroBrute currently wins on price.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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price is nice, but not at the expense of sound to me

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I'd say, go for it if you know what you are doing with analog synths. A mate has one, and it sounds great, but he is struggling with it coz of the lack of memories, and his own limited ability to patch it. Last time I saw him he was planning to sell his, and buy the Behringer Model D (moog clone). I prefer my Dark Energy, Teisco 60F & SUB 37, but that's just me ... :ud:

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funktoons wrote:price is nice, but not at the expense of sound to me
Nor me. which is why I mentioned it. the filter and VCO are exceptionally good.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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Have you looked at the Monologue?
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IMO Novation Bass Station 2 or Waldorf Pulse 2 (got both here) are a great "bang for the buck" at the moment and they both got a quite complex synth engine that in the same way i did not really find in my plugins yet (at least not with also having a similar sound quality).
Both include a dedicated analog multimode filter (LPF/BPF/HPF) where BS 2 has 7 modes and Pulse 2 has 4 modes.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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I agree with Ingonator, I have a Pulse 2 (never tried the Bass Station 2 because I tried the first version at a friend's place and I didn't like it) and it can do more than a MS-20: the oscillators are more complex, there's a lot of modulation, if has an arpeggiator, two ADSR, patch memory.

That said, I play a lot more with my MS-20 Mini, because of its sound, the built-in keyboard (which I hate, to be honest... but it's better than nothing when jamming in the studio) and the direct access to every control. In order to play my Pulse 2, I need to turn on my studio pc to route a master keyboard to it (because of the way I built my setup), which I won't do most of the times when I'm just jamming.

I'd say, go with the MS-20 (mini) only if:
- you like its sound
- you fine even with without patch memory
- you know the quirks of the MS-20 architecture (the envelopes in particular).

As for eurorack integration, you'll need a module like the English Tear (the MS-20 doesn't integrate with Eurorack out of the box because it's V/Hz instead of V/Oct and it uses a different triggering system); as for duophony, it's not featured out of the box (and it's actually paraphony, because there are only one filter and one amp): you either do the "duophony trick" with the sampling and hold controlled by the trigger button which is next to the wheel, or you sequence it using a SQ-1 (either as a step sequencer with two lines or as a midi-to-cv dongle). But, if you want to play "duophonic" with an SQ1, you won't be able to enter two notes at the same time in the same midi part, you'll need to write two separate midi parts with one note each that will go to two different midi channels... Not deal-breakers in my opinion, but something to be aware of.


The MiniBrute can sound classy and not grungy if you avoid overloading its mixer (the waves are at unity gain at 12 o'clock, then the knobs drive the mixer up to 2x) and avoid the brute factor. I don't have a MiniBrute, just the MicroBrute, but the experience should translate.


Just my 2 cents.
free multisamples (last upd: 22th May 2021).
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I vote with my wallet.

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i'm not familiar with the pulse 2, i'll have to at least give it a listen, but one of the the things i love about the MS20 is KNOBS, and lots of 'em, but, on the other hand, i imagine the waldorf is programmable, and accessible if you program it via PC. as i'd like to get into modular synthesis some day, the MS20 would be a great way to learn the basics when you see modular heads doing patches with a dozen modules and 3-4 times as many cables.

i'd rather get an ARP 2600, but they aren't cheap. sorry to hear MS20s are so expensive across the pond. here, the street price is only $450 (£348.82, and i've seen one place asking $402) yeah... $710 would be a lot to pay for an MS20 and would invite considering options like various mini-modulars, but $450 is pretty entry level for a "real" instrument, especially analogue.

here, it's the other way around... the Waldorf Pulse 2 is $750! (£581.51) for the $300 difference (and that's noting that the waldorf doesn't have a keyboard) i could buy a decent soundcard, so financially, the MS20 totally wins here.

as to the monologue, no i haven't looked at that figuring it probably sounds a lot like the minilogue which sounds more like a casio toy than a chunky analogue to me.

besides the "added values", for me, of the MS20 having a ring modular, keyboard and the ability to patch... i just like the look of it with that "big" wall of knobs. it looks like it means business. yes, it's a total placebo effect, but it just looks like it'd be fun to have access to all of its parameters with a nice comfy vertical layout. starting out with mostly VSTs, it would give my home studio a bit of "hardware street cred" visually, and, probably unlike other monos, it could be used to process audio which would be VERY important to me. it could be used to fatten VSTs up with its "poor man's sherman filterbank" instead of using digital filters.

i actually played around with a virtual analogue that i was able to use without a VST host for about a week. it was a total pain to start learning it as i'd have to manually trigger each one shot note after adjusting parameters where having MIDI & knobs, it's be so much easier to re-learn how to coax sounds out of an analogue and get instant results if a sequence is playing. after the week was over, my big accomplishment was getting the synth to go "WOW!" & "YO!" with vocoder sounding square waves, but that's because it had nice multistage ADSRs for both pitch and filters. the MS20 doesn't, but programming would be way more immediate to the point where i think it's be possible to master programming its sounds in a week once one's able to visualize what every knob does sonically.

it feels like i'm really liking the MS20 for my needs & tastes, but i appreciate a reality check. i can get TONS of sounds from tons of freeware synths, SOME of which aren't that shabby actually... i think i heard a really sweet juno sim before and another VST that sounded pretty close to early kraftwerk, but it's essential to have at least one REAL analogue for serious chunk & spit, and the ability for the MS20 to process digital sources only adds to its usefulness to me. that, my juicy TC electronics chorus/flanger in storage & an electro harmonix LPB 2ube would be a decent start for a more old school analogue sound when so much techno is pure digital these days.

old school analogue didn't just sound more organic, the fact that it was mostly played live instead of quantized made it sound looser too. i'd like to bring that vibe back & mix it with wobble bass (fattened up so it doesn't sound so digital sizzly) and a few of my own techniques like beatboxing and multitracking a twangy direct telecaster.

even if i had a modular though, MOST of what i'd do with it is pretty much the same synth architecture as the MS-20, treating it as a synthesizer, but one that i can swap all kinds of oscillators & filters with so it's like cramming a room full of synths into one box. i just don't get a lot of what people do with modulars... you can't dance to it. sure, it uses a lot of cables and takes time to "program", but to me, the slop you get playing stuff live is what gives it the funk. you just can't do funk with rigid grids.

it's a bummer that the MS20 uses a different CV standard, but outside of modulation, wouldn't it treat audio the same way eg. using a WASP, ARP, diode ladder, or jupiter 8 filter CLONE etc. to add variety to the MS20s tones. i pretty much DESPISE filter sweeps (you come anywhere near me with that TB-303, and i WILL smash it! LOL) so modulation isn't an issue for me there.

as to duophnic, yes, i realize it's NOT polyphony, but it really does add thickness and texture to tones which is the whole point of going analogue, at least for me. i love fat buzzy square waves that make your brain feel like rubber.

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the waldorf sounds PAINFULLY digital here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu-tyEk73n8

not liking it one bit

the monologue sounds digital to me too here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4samC2A-vwo

i've heard better sounding freeware VSTs

hmmm!!! check the $500 Roland SE-02 out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYLloIcu7us
not shabby... 3 oscillators... NOW there's something else i like. i have to go back and check MS20 demos out, but if memory serves me right, it has more grit and attitude, but the roland has a big old butt for sure

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In answer to the question posed in thread title... It depends.

MS20 strength is that it has a very distinctive and fairly unique tone. If you want to get a monosynth capable of aggressive and beautifully edgy tones it's a great option, and it also rocks for SFX type stuff and drums/percussion. And it doubles as a great box for processing external signals.

Here's an example of a lead sound where the output is routed through esp to drive/distort and the filters are set to make the keyboard track over a narrow range of notes only...

https://youtu.be/_VUKVbFEodU

It's a very cool synth albeit not necessarily the most versatile. The semi modular status is a bit misleading. You can do cool things with modulation via patchbay but signal flow /architecture is fixed.

I would think hard about the Arp Odyssey module in the same price ballpark as an alternative. That is a great sounding synth and probably more versatile. The Roland/Behringer D also look really promising although are a different cup of tea sonically.

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It's not that those synths don't sound analogue, it's that they are rather clean/precise/modern. From your posts, I get that you like more a vintage sound, so probably the MS-20 is more your thing (which is absolutely fine... I also prefer the more old-school sounding synth, even though I'm more into the Moog sound).

For the record, all those synths (MS-20, Mini/MicroBrute, Pulse 2, Mini/MonoLogue, SE02, Bass Station 2) have an external audio input... though I would probably use it only on the more colorful synths.
Also, the signal path on the MS-20 is fixed: oscillators into filter into vca. It can't be changed and there are no individual oscillator outputs. All the patching is just for modulation. The semi-modular thing is a bit overrated on the MS-20 in my opinion.
The ring modulator, from what I gather online, is not a real ring modulator but a xor between the two pulse waveform. Whatever the actual implementation, it can't be used to ring modulate external sounds; however in my book it's very useful to get some classic bass tones.
Before purchasing an MS-20, please get to know the particular behaviour of the second envelope: the sustain level works as in every other synth with for the vca, while it's sort of reversed for the filter. Being used for years to the classic subtractive synth architecture, this was really awkward for me and it took me a while to be able to get used to it.


About FXs/pedals: the LPB 2UBE adds some drive and grit, but I'm not a fan. I currently use it to enhance the kick 2 of my DrumBrute, before going into a compressor. I don't think I would ever put it on the MS-20: even though it could sound good, I don't expect nothing special from such chain. I had good results by putting the MS-20 Mini through a WA-12 (ok, it's way pricier...), anyway I think the MS-20 sound doesn't benefit much from overdrive (unless you really look for a distorted sound). Just my taste, you can have a different opinion on the subject.
I had good results by using an analog delay on the MS-20 Mini, I like the Deluxe Memory Boy with it (I don't have a Memory Man, so I can't say which is better with the MS-20 Mini... and it's a personal thing anyway), probably more than the MF-104M... a dark and dirty delay is a nice match with the MS-20 sound in my opinion.


Just my 2 cents, of course!
free multisamples (last upd: 22th May 2021).
-------------------------
I vote with my wallet.

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At YouTube there are a LOT of videos about Waldorf Pulse 2, both single patches tests and full tracks using Pulse 2:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... rf+pulse+2

As i was a beta tester and factory presets sound designer for Pulse 2 i might be a bit biased. :)

On the other hand i did also "praise" the Bass Station 2 quite a lot in the past and recently i might have even used it more than the Pulse 2.

For MS-20 stuff i currently got the Korg plugin and the MS-20 Osc/HPF/LPF modules in U-He Diva.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Based on your criteria Id suggest a second hand Mother 32, got mine for £350 mint condition.

There are plenty of other similar offerings that are all in one and can be easily integrated or fitted into a Eurorack.

A second hand Microbrute can be had cheap, got mine for £165 mint condition and certainly has character
Amazon: why not use an alternative

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