Resisting Omnisphere 2

[pdxindy]

The above example was not meant as music, but just as a counter to someone who said, "Omnisphere can't do dirty." It can do whatever you want it to do, pretty much.

I'm the one who said that... but that is not actually what I said. I said it cannot do the type of dirty (noisy) you get from audio rate modulation... which Omnisphere has no facility for.

There are a wide range of sounds I can make in Bazille that Omnisphere cannot begin to duplicate. So no, Omnisphere CANNOT do whatever you want it to. Likewise, it cannot import user multi-samples. So if you want to create your own multi-sampled instruments, just not possible.

[zerocrossing]

The above example was not meant as music, but just as a counter to someone who said, "Omnisphere can't do dirty." It can do whatever you want it to do, pretty much.

I'm the one who said that... but that is not actually what I said. I said it cannot do the type of dirty (noisy) you get from audio rate modulation... which Omnisphere has no facility for.

There are a wide range of sounds I can make in Bazille that Omnisphere cannot begin to duplicate. So no, Omnisphere CANNOT do whatever you want it to. Likewise, it cannot import user multi-samples. So if you want to create your own multi-sampled instruments, just not possible.

False. You were wrong then, and wrong now. I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on being wrong. Did Eric poop in your punchbowl?

https://support.spectrasonics.net/manua ... age15.html

Is Omnisphere a full fledged FM synth? Nope. I'll admit that it even lacks the ability to modulate the filter at audio rates, which is a shame, but to say it doesn't do audio rate modulation at all, is plain and simply wrong.

Oh, and that is what you initially said, and then later moved the goal post by changing your dirt requirements, but no matter, Omnisphere still does audio rate modulation anyway. It's used in the above example. You can even use a wavetable as a modulator. Anyway, as I said before, it's not going to go up against a synth that's main focus is any specific thing. That's not the point of Omnisphere. It's more of an overview of many different functions. So, if you want kick ass FM, open up Bazille. If you want great sounding filter modulation, open up Legend. If you want multisamples, open Kontakt. If you want something that's more of an overview of synthesis types and features, I'm still saying that Omnisphere is still one of the best.

[pdxindy]

Oh, and that is what you initially said, and then later moved the goal post by changing your dirt requirements

No it isn't... you assumed a certain interpretation of what I wrote which is not what my intention was. So I corrected the misunderstanding.

[pdxindy]

but no matter, Omnisphere still does audio rate modulation

it calculates at control rate, not audio rate... Just cause some synths have for example, LFO's that go up to something like 200 or 400Hz does not make that audio rate modulation... at least I would not call it that. If you want to call that audio rate modulation, then okay, Omnisphere can do that... but that is not even close to what you get in analog gear or in synths that do a credible job emulating it in software (Bazille, Reaktor Blocks etc.)

[pdxindy]

It can do whatever you want it to do, pretty much.

Anyway, as I said before, it's not going to go up against a synth that's main focus is any specific thing. That's not the point of Omnisphere. It's more of an overview of many different functions. So, if you want kick ass FM, open up Bazille. If you want great sounding filter modulation, open up Legend. If you want multisamples, open Kontakt.

Good you backtracked from the original statement, which is what I responded to.

Omnisphere is an excellent synth that many people find value in... it is not however the be all end all of synths... which is frequently implied. You have repeatedly become bent out of shape when someone points out some limitations in Omnisphere (usually said in response to someone like yourself claiming it can do basically anything).

[wagtunes]

These are the stupid arguments that drive me crazy about this place.

Bazille can so things that Omnisphere can't do.

Omnisphere can do things that Bazille can't do.

And this is true for ALMOST every synth out there. That's why we don't own just one synth. Really, take a poll of this forum and see how many people out of the thousands here answer "One synth owned."

Comparing Omnisphere to Bazille is so bat shit crazy that I can't even form the proper words to describe just how bat shit crazy it is.

But that's KVR. We compare apples to sledge hammers and actually expect to make any f**king sense at all.

[Orbit-50]

But that's KVR. We compare apples to sledge hammers...

[dreamkeeper]

But that's KVR. We compare apples to sledge hammers...

Yeah... sledgehammer should be applied to apples:

[ghettosynth]

These are the stupid arguments that drive me crazy about this place.

Bazille can so things that Omnisphere can't do.

Omnisphere can do things that Bazille can't do.

And this is true for ALMOST every synth out there.

You're kind of missing the point though, what you say is true, for the most part, consequently no synth can do "anything that you want it to." The name of Omnisphere and the associated marketing seems to have a certain impact on people in to believing that it's some kind of universal solution leading people to make such broad claims. Seriously, I have had salesmen say this almost exactly to my face. Because of how Spectra positions Omni in the market many people seem to be under the impression that you will eventually "graduate" to Omnisphere and that the price is indicative of technological superiority, it isn't.

Technologically, Omnisphere is weak and so those of us who actually seek out superior technology roll our eyes at this kind of language. Just look at the FM page above to get a sense of it. "Most other FM synths only use sin waves", ok, maybe in 1983, but not today except in those cases where people are trying to provide true emulations of synths from 1983.

Omnisphere is an average synth combined with an expensive sound library. If you like the sounds in that sound library then it might be worth it to you. I can't think of anything that it does, from an audio technology point of view, that it does better than anything else. The same cannot be said about Bazille, Reaktor, Diva, etc.

Omni wouldn't replace any synth for me and would seldom be chosen as I look for synths for their strengths and I don't think that Omni has a technological strength. I don't think that it makes for a better synth to combine weak versions of a bunch of different technologies and I haven't heard anything come out of Omnisphere that demonstrates a strength resulting from that.

Also, as I've said numerous times, I'm not impressed by the sound library. That's just a matter of taste though, it isn't to my liking. I'm not trying to make any statement about its value to someone else. If you think that the video above that I posted was nice, then you might like the sounds of Omnisphere.

So, people talk about what Omni can't do, e.g., the kind of audio rate modulation that you can do in Bazille, as a counterpoint to the claims that Omni is, well, Omni. However, nobody who does this claims that Bazille can "do anything that you want." So it's a moot point to assert that Omni can do something that Bazille can't, nobody will disagree with that. However, we have other synths that do everything else that Omni does and those synths do that better as well.

Omnisphere is like the Old Country Buffet of synthesizers. It seems to have everything, sort of.

YMMV and all that.

[wagtunes]

These are the stupid arguments that drive me crazy about this place.

Bazille can so things that Omnisphere can't do.

Omnisphere can do things that Bazille can't do.

And this is true for ALMOST every synth out there.

You're kind of missing the point though, what you say is true, for the most part, consequently no synth can do "anything that you want it to." The name of Omnisphere and the associated marketing seems to have a certain impact on people in to believing that it's some kind of universal solution leading people to make such broad claims. Seriously, I have had salesmen say this almost exactly to my face. Because of how Spectra positions Omni in the market many people seem to be under the impression that you will eventually "graduate" to Omnisphere and that the price is indicative of technological superiority, it isn't.

Technologically, Omnisphere is weak and so those of us who actually seek out superior technology roll our eyes at this kind of language. Just look at the FM page above to get a sense of it. "Most other FM synths only use sin waves", ok, maybe in 1983, but not today except in those cases where people are trying to provide true emulations of synths from 1983.

Omnisphere is an average synth combined with an expensive sound library. If you like the sounds in that sound library then it might be worth it to you. I can't think of anything that it does, from an audio technology point of view, that it does better than anything else. The same cannot be said about Bazille, Reaktor, Diva, etc.

Omni wouldn't replace any synth for me and would seldom be chosen as I look for synths for their strengths and I don't think that Omni has a technological strength. I don't think that it makes for a better synth to combine weak versions of a bunch of different technologies and I haven't heard anything come out of Omnisphere that demonstrates a strength resulting from that.

Also, as I've said numerous times, I'm not impressed by the sound library. That's just a matter of taste though, it isn't to my liking. I'm not trying to make any statement about its value to someone else. If you think that the video above that I posted was nice, then you might like the sounds of Omnisphere.

So, people talk about what Omni can't do, e.g., the kind of audio rate modulation that you can do in Bazille, as a counterpoint to the claims that Omni is, well, Omni. However, nobody who does this claims that Bazille can "do anything that you want." So it's a moot point to assert that Omni can do something that Bazille can't, nobody will disagree with that. However, we have other synths that do everything else that Omni does and those synths do that better as well.

Omnisphere is like the Old Country Buffet of synthesizers. It seems to have everything, sort of.

YMMV and all that.

Well this goes back to the old argument about what's the "perfect" synth. Technically, because of the platform, Reaktor could be used to "create" the perfect synth. Problem is, at least for me anyway, nobody has done that yet. Sure, there are a lot of Reaktor ensembles that I like, but nothing that makes me go "Wow, I can now throw away every other synth I own and just use this." And I seriously doubt that day is ever going to happen.

Okay, you don't like Omni's library. There's stuff in it that I'm not thrilled with anyway (burning piano still has me scratching my head) but there's a lot of stuff in it that I'd be lost without because trying to get those sounds is incredibly difficult if not impossible with conventional synths.

So yeah, for soundscape stuff, ambient music and even some traditional orchestral based stuff where I'm not looking for a "true" orchestral sound but more of a "synth" sound but with samples, Omni beats just about everything out there, at least to my ears.

No, I don't use it for stuff that Diva, Bazille, The Legend and even something like Dune 2 can do much better. But again, that's why I own 100 VSTs. I use them all because they all give me something I don't get from something else, even if it's a minuscule thing.

I don't pay attention to advertising hype so I don't know about the "Omni is the answer to everything" crap. If that's the way Spectrasonics is marketing it, well, caveat emptor. I mean are people so stupid that they buy something just because somebody says it's the greatest thing since sliced bread? I know I don't. I buy something because I like the way it sounds, period.

All I know is this. If I want to do a dreamy soundscape piece that sounds like flowing water and birds and crickets and harps and clouds spouting lemon drops, I'm not turning to Diva or Bazille. It's futile. And no, I'm not turning to Omni to do audio rate modulation. For that matter, I don't even turn to it to do granular synthesis as its engine is very poor next to the top granular synths. I use it for what it's good at. Do I think it's worth $500? No. I don't. As I said, I sold junk I wasn't using to buy it. Only way I was going to. But that said, I'm glad I got it because I use it on almost every song I do.

That has to mean something.

[stevemc]

So I ended up buying Exhale. They offer a money back guarantee
so no risk in taking it out for a spin. Tried it for about an hour, then dropped it. It had some some cool sounds but couldn't justify shelling out the $200 for it. It's really not as flexible as I thought it would be.

Ended up buying Spire instead. I know random, but I've had the demo for a while and I like the effort they put in their presets, most of them are useful right off the bat. Started a pretty cool song with one of the stock patches with a few minor tweaks. I also recorded my own vocals into the song. It all came together very quickly, so I'm happy with the purchase.

Also started the rent-to-own deal for Serum on Splice. The Serum manual is well written, props to Duda for that. I'm actually looking forward to programming my own synth patches again. These 2 ought to keep me busy for a while.

Hope this is helpful. Cheers for all the input.

Really, you dropped Exhale??
But that's on my wish list!
Id be interested to know exactly what it is about it you didn't like. How wasn't it flexible? Does it come with enough sounds? Is the quality not that great?
I've seen others try to sell their Output stuff and I can't figure out why, every reviewer gives em 4 or 5 stars.

I felt kinda locked in with their samples, and they were not as inspiring as I expected them to be (granted my expectations were pretty high). As far as I know you cannot import your own samples to Exhale.

They have a Money back guarantee, so I'd say give it a whirl to see if it works for you.

[dreamkeeper]

I don't pay attention to advertising hype so I don't know about the "Omni is the answer to everything" crap. If that's the way Spectrasonics is marketing it, well, caveat emptor. I mean are people so stupid that they buy something just because somebody says it's the greatest thing since sliced bread? I know I don't. I buy something because I like the way it sounds, period.

Well, the thing is, that it's just an old worn-out strawman that keeps getting pulled out of the closet by the usual anti-Omni trolls. Eric Persing repeatedly stated that it was never their goal with Omni to cover all bases. They wanted to create something special, not the be-all-end-all synth that could replace everything else.

Back then, I followed closely all publishings and statements made by Spectrasonics prior to the the release of Omnisphere 1 - and while I'm not exactly a fan of "good" marketing, I have to say that I found it quite useful. Loved the videos, which gave me a good impression of what Omni is and what it isn't. After purchasing it, I clearly felt that I got my money's worth.

But yeah, that's KVR: 90% professional shills and trolls, 9% genuine fanbois and haters - and 1% all the rest...

[ghettosynth]

Okay, you don't like Omni's library. There's stuff in it that I'm not thrilled with anyway (burning piano still has me scratching my head) but there's a lot of stuff in it that I'd be lost without because trying to get those sounds is incredibly difficult if not impossible with conventional synths.

So yeah, for soundscape stuff, ambient music and even some traditional orchestral based stuff where I'm not looking for a "true" orchestral sound but more of a "synth" sound but with samples, Omni beats just about everything out there, at least to my ears.

Unless you can articulate why, I have to believe that it's just preference for the sound library. You can get those kinds of sounds with Kontakt, or as someone suggested earlier, with Absynth or really any sample based synth with layers and complex envelopes. If you like it, fine, nobody can argue with that. However, all I'm saying is that there's no real trick to getting those kinds of sounds. I remember spending a bunch of time dissecting JD-800 sounds and programming my own in the same way. Those kinds of sounds are largely about layering samples and taking advantage of the fact that when you slow complex samples down and fix their pitch it often sounds like tinkly rainbows. Combine that with complex envelopes with different timing across the layers and you have the recipe for lemon drop soundscapes.

I prefer different kinds of soundscapes and turn to synths like Bazille, Kontour, Padshop, Iris2, or even layers of those kinds of synths. I am also of the opinion that layering different higher quality synths gives you better soundscapes than using simpler technology. So a great recipe for some kinds of sounds like that is Prism+Diva or Vacuum Pro+Absynth or Padshop. You can take advantage of technology in each of the synths rather than relying on an average effort. If Omni actually did something cross layer then there might be a point to it in that sense, but it doesn't. Layers in Omni are really just like having multiple copies of the same average synthesizer.

All I know is this. If I want to do a dreamy soundscape piece that sounds like flowing water and birds and crickets and harps and clouds spouting lemon drops, I'm not turning to Diva or Bazille. It's futile.

No, but getting those sounds isn't about technology as I've pointed out. Unless you're creating the sounds, I assume that you're largely using the library and there are a shit-ton of those kinds of sounds in the library. So I can see turning to it if you're getting the sounds that you want from it AND you have already paid for it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not singing the praises of Absynth here. I think that it is even more mediocre from a technology perspective than Omnisphere is. It has a few tricks, but it's really outdated. I'm just saying that, like Omnisphere, it's useful in getting those abused sample soundscapes, and, it's damned cheap if you get it with Komplete.

That really is the bottom line for me. I think that Omnisphere is VASTLY overpriced given the technology and does nothing special from a technology point of view.

But that said, I'm glad I got it because I use it on almost every song I do.

That has to mean something.

It means that you probably like Eric Persing's sound design chops and taste, which, IMNSHO, is really the only reason to buy Omnisphere. I had my fill of that decades ago and it didn't take very long TBH. While I grant that he and his team have skill in sound design, I abhor their taste in sound design.

[ghettosynth]

I don't pay attention to advertising hype so I don't know about the "Omni is the answer to everything" crap. If that's the way Spectrasonics is marketing it, well, caveat emptor. I mean are people so stupid that they buy something just because somebody says it's the greatest thing since sliced bread? I know I don't. I buy something because I like the way it sounds, period.

Well, the thing is, that it's just an old worn-out strawman that keeps getting pulled out of the closet by the usual anti-Omni trolls.

Um, no, it's something that fans actually say.

It can do whatever you want it to do, pretty much.

Nice try mate, but it's right here in this thread along with every other thread on the same subject.

Omni can't do "whatever you want it to do", it can layer some samples and do a half ass job at VA duties with a smattering of granular and FM, and that's pretty much about it.

[wagtunes]

Okay, you don't like Omni's library. There's stuff in it that I'm not thrilled with anyway (burning piano still has me scratching my head) but there's a lot of stuff in it that I'd be lost without because trying to get those sounds is incredibly difficult if not impossible with conventional synths.

So yeah, for soundscape stuff, ambient music and even some traditional orchestral based stuff where I'm not looking for a "true" orchestral sound but more of a "synth" sound but with samples, Omni beats just about everything out there, at least to my ears.

Unless you can articulate why, I have to believe that it's just preference for the sound library. You can get those kinds of sounds with Kontakt, or as someone suggested earlier, with Absynth or really any sample based synth with layers and complex envelopes. If you like it, fine, nobody can argue with that. However, all I'm saying is that there's no real trick to getting those kinds of sounds. I remember spending a bunch of time dissecting JD-800 sounds and programming my own in the same way. Those kinds of sounds are largely about layering samples and taking advantage of the fact that when you slow complex samples down and fix their pitch it often sounds like tinkly rainbows. Combine that with complex envelopes with different timing across the layers and you have the recipe for lemon drop soundscapes.

I prefer different kinds of soundscapes and turn to synths like Bazille, Kontour, Padshop, Iris2, or even layers of those kinds of synths. I am also of the opinion that layering different higher quality synths gives you better soundscapes than using simpler technology. So a great recipe for some kinds of sounds like that is Prism+Diva or Vacuum Pro+Absynth or Padshop. You can take advantage of technology in each of the synths rather than relying on an average effort. If Omni actually did something cross layer then there might be a point to it in that sense, but it doesn't. Layers in Omni are really just like having multiple copies of the same average synthesizer.

All I know is this. If I want to do a dreamy soundscape piece that sounds like flowing water and birds and crickets and harps and clouds spouting lemon drops, I'm not turning to Diva or Bazille. It's futile.

No, but getting those sounds isn't about technology as I've pointed out. Unless you're creating the sounds, I assume that you're largely using the library and there are a shit-ton of those kinds of sounds in the library. So I can see turning to it if you're getting the sounds that you want from it AND you have already paid for it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not singing the praises of Absynth here. I think that it is even more mediocre from a technology perspective than Omnisphere is. It has a few tricks, but it's really outdated. I'm just saying that, like Omnisphere, it's useful in getting those abused sample soundscapes, and, it's damned cheap if you get it with Komplete.

That really is the bottom line for me. I think that Omnisphere is VASTLY overpriced given the technology and does nothing special from a technology point of view.

But that said, I'm glad I got it because I use it on almost every song I do.

That has to mean something.

It means that you probably like Eric Persing's sound design chops and taste, which, IMNSHO, is really the only reason to buy Omnisphere. I had my fill of that decades ago and it didn't take very long TBH. While I grant that he and his team have skill in sound design, I abhor their taste in sound design.

I actually agree with you on the tech specs discussion. So let me articulate more clearly. I don't want to bust my ass getting those sounds that I get out of Omnisphere out of another synth because that's what I'd have to do. It would require enormous amounts of time layering and processing. In fact, I built a whole library of that kind of stuff for The Mangle, which is a granular synth. And while the library was a decent seller for me, the amount of work required to create this library was mind boggling and not something I'm looking forward to doing again...ever.

So yeah, with Omni, I open it up, do a search, find a sound and use it. Usually takes me all of 3 to 5 minutes tops. That is ultimately why I like Omni. Instant gratification for sounds that would take me hours to create with another synth.

Hopefully, that makes things more clear.