808 Tuning Discovery

[simon.a.billington]

I don't often tune kit pieces for a mix, but given the 808 Kick in the mix i was currently working on was so close to the root note, I figured I'd give it a go.

I tried Waves Soundshifter and Logic's new algorithm and I was able to get a pretty good result from both. Logic being slightly preferable. They both, however had issues and would momentarily be a bit glitchy here and there.

Now I could have gone ahead and copy and past over the errant notes, or done a complete replace or just not bothered with it. So as I was taking a break and flicking through my email as I considered what to do, I came across this...

http://links.waves-audio.com/a/750/prev ... lvLmNvbSI=

Well this changes things!!... Possibly!!

I haven't tested it yet and there was no guarantee it could fair any better. Although given it seemed to work quite impressively on the kicks in the demos I watched, it does stand a very good chance of being up to the task.

Anyone tried Torq on an 808 kick yet??

[DuX]

Hmmm... I usually tune it in the sampler. Like AKAI S3200 or TAL-Sampler in VST world. Why would you want to use a plugin for tuning? What do you use to play it?

[cron]

I usually tune it in the sampler... Why would you want to use a plugin for tuning?

I've no idea how Torque works, but frequency shifting can often produce nicer results than transpoing in the sampler - especially on 808ish synth kicks where the body is pretty much just a sine wave with no obvious overtones. You can get massive amounts of clean retune with no perceptible change to the initial transient.

[simon.a.billington]

Hmmm... I usually tune it in the sampler. Like AKAI S3200 or TAL-Sampler in VST world. Why would you want to use a plugin for tuning? What do you use to play it?

Yeah you would tune it at the source usually, except this isn't my production. I recieved it as a mix project.

We don't always get to make the choices we want.

[DuX]

Hmmm... I usually tune it in the sampler. Like AKAI S3200 or TAL-Sampler in VST world. Why would you want to use a plugin for tuning? What do you use to play it?

Yeah you would tune it at the source usually, except this isn't my production. I recieved it as a mix project.

We don't always get to make the choices we want.

I actually suspected so, but mentioned it anyway for just in case.

[aciddose]

Another option is to duck the bass using the kick. Especially where the tuning is identical this can eliminate all phasing without becoming audible.

If the bass sound has important mid/high frequency components you can use a dual band compressor and send the kick side-chain to the low band only, where the low band is split at about 140 Hz. Since most of the 808 kick is from 70 Hz (attack) to 40 Hz (release) this should give you plenty of control without affecting (for example) the resonance on the bass sound or other high frequency components.

Since the kick does not have a "pitch" and is instead a near continuous sweep (release) along with an attack/decay envelope it means adjusting the tuning is nearly pointless. You might eliminate the cancellation you're hearing for one bass note only to shift it to the next note. You'll never eliminate the problem this way.

[simon.a.billington]

Another option is to duck the bass using the kick. Especially where the tuning is identical this can eliminate all phasing without becoming audible.

If the bass sound has important mid/high frequency components you can use a dual band compressor and send the kick side-chain to the low band only, where the low band is split at about 140 Hz. Since most of the 808 kick is from 70 Hz (attack) to 40 Hz (release) this should give you plenty of control without affecting (for example) the resonance on the bass sound or other high frequency components.

Since the kick does not have a "pitch" and is instead a near continuous sweep (release) along with an attack/decay envelope it means adjusting the tuning is nearly pointless. You might eliminate the cancellation you're hearing for one bass note only to shift it to the next note. You'll never eliminate the problem this way.

Yeah I like to duck, especially with EDM style sub heavy kicks and basses. It's one of the best ways to manage it, along with some of the more regular style eq and compression.

[sfxsound3]

I don't often tune kit pieces for a mix, but given the 808 Kick in the mix i was currently working on was so close to the root note, I figured I'd give it a go.

So, what you're doing is not mixing. Sound designing and problem fixing after the fact. In this case you could just find a properly tuned 808 kick sound and replace the one you don't like.

And please fix your thread name. You're not tuning an 808 and you've not discovered anything. A link and an html page don't count as 'discoveries'.

[simon.a.billington]

You think??

I don't know, I've seen a few mixers decide to make a production decision in tuning a kick to the key of a song. It's not simply an EDM production thing. It certainly isn't a new concept. I certainly don't choose to do it often myself, not in the 20 or so years I've been mixing. It is a valid mixing technique, nonetheless.

Yes, I did state I could have replaced it, that technique is already "known" to me. I also stated I could have replaced the "errant" beats, that technique is also "known" to me, that would have taken time to accomplish as well...

Then I "discovered" a "new" option that I had not considered sitting in my email that was not previously known to me. It seems, a more quick way to achieve the desirable result I was after. I did not know it was an option before, which is fair enough because it's a "new" thing option previously didn't exist and clearly conventional pitch editing techniques wasn't getting the sound I want.

I stand by my statement, I discovered a new, previously unheard of option that I would seem a more low fuss way of achieving the desired result in the mix. Then I asked if anyone else get around to trying it out yet. I was looking for a second, "educated" opinion to see if people managed to get a "better" sound out of it.

After all, why go to alot of effort if I'm not even sure the production will benefit from a tuned kick. Not all do.

[sfxsound3]

Hmmm, are you sure your client wants this? EQ is one thing, pitch shifting - quite radical. Check your permissions.

Again, you're not tuning a real 808, and you have not discovered anything related to a real 808. And 808 has other sounds too, so when you say tuning an 808 - what the f**k do you mean? Some f**ked up wave files on your hard drive that sound like a kick drum.

Hard to take seriously such 'production' dilemmas.

[Aloysius]

You discovered the 808?

[simon.a.billington]

Hmmm, are you sure your client wants this? EQ is one thing, pitch shifting - quite radical. Check your permissions.

Exactly, that's why it's supposed to be a quick and easy experiment.

Given that it's only a semitone away and that dropping it's pitch helps bring more weight to the bottom end and doesn't seem to take much of the attack snap away. Its an 808 kick and there's not much of that in the first place anyway. it's worth giving it a go and running it by them.

From experience, that approach has usually proven to be more successful. If not, it's a quick and easy undo.

[simon.a.billington]

Again, you're not tuning a real 808, and you have not discovered anything related to a real 808. And 808 has other sounds too, so when you say tuning an 808 - what the f**k do you mean? Some f**ked up wave files on your hard drive that sound like a kick drum.

Hard to take seriously such 'production' dilemmas.

Believe or not these forums don't exist for your personal appeasement.

Go and troll someone else if you can't contribute constructively.