any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
2182 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Post Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:09 am

Wouldn't mind a couple of pointers.

Don't want to kill off the bone-cutting "thrash".

I mostly use Valhalla.

cheers = kevvvvv
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger (Still top), Kontakt (loads), Spitfire Studio Strings, Session Strings Pro 2, Dune, Spire, Shreddage, BFD3, Izotope Neutron & Ozone mixing for idiots like me

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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
2182 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:52 pm

There's so much advice on edm and band reverb, but little on getting hard sound.
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger (Still top), Kontakt (loads), Spitfire Studio Strings, Session Strings Pro 2, Dune, Spire, Shreddage, BFD3, Izotope Neutron & Ozone mixing for idiots like me

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
5667 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:01 pm

Preface: I've never mixed a Thrash Metal song and I don't listen to much (though I did just toss on Slayer's Reign in Blood which I'll listen to on occasion). So take all this with a grain of salt....

I'd probably start by sticking to the old tried and true advice of: faster tempos = shorter reverbs. Probably short decay times (<1s) using room or ambience algorithms with lots of ER to get the instruments to blend in a room. At least for the main verb. Would probably just use it for blend, not to be really audible. If I wanted something more wet on a lead vocal or guitar for more creative purposes, I'd probably consider a short-ish delay with little feedback, or maybe a longer verb for contrast. For snare, you could use a different verb with a longer decay time or maybe even something with an inverse or gate algorithm.

Winstontaneous
KVRian
1382 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Berkeley, CA

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:15 pm

Interesting question, subscribing though I don't typically produce thrash.

Have you checked out the reverb chapter in Mike Senior's "Mixing Secrets"?

His approach of using reverb for 5 specific tasks: blend, size, sustain, tone, and spread - gave me a whole new perspective on the subject. Also, on a heavier/faster tune I'm working on right now, I find a short, quick modulated delay from PSP42 delay gives the space I'd want from a reverb with more control.

Digging into Valhalla Vintage Verb lately I'm getting a really good sense of how the Attack, Size & Diffusion controls interact with the different algorithms, especially on for shorter ambiences.

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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
2182 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:24 pm

Funkybot, Winstontaneous

I'm getting the idea.

speed, blend, extreme shortness, small delay (maybe)

I've never used verb in this way before, so thanks v much for the pointers

kevvvvvv :)
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger (Still top), Kontakt (loads), Spitfire Studio Strings, Session Strings Pro 2, Dune, Spire, Shreddage, BFD3, Izotope Neutron & Ozone mixing for idiots like me

sfxsound3
Banned
453 posts since 30 Mar, 2016

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:45 pm

What do you mean thrash? Listen to Slayer "Hell Awaits", Sodom "Obsessed by Cruelty", Destruction "Sentence of Death" and you'll get the idea. Or you mean recent Metallica 'thrash'?

Arrested Developer
KVRian
597 posts since 8 Apr, 2012

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:40 pm

Exponential Audio's reverbs (Nimbus and R4) are extremely transparent.
You could try them. They add a great sense of space without creating mud.

michaeltn86
KVRist
183 posts since 8 Jun, 2016

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:55 am

I don't remember where I saw this nor it's trash metal

but there is a video on utube commenting about back in black where a lexicon (if my memory is not wrong) is used in the shortest time available.

in this video it's also commented that one of the first tests to try a reverb would be to put it the shortest time reverb available in guitars to see if they mud things up or not.

sorry I couldn't be clearer.

User avatar
kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
2182 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:11 am

i get it
short
cheers
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger (Still top), Kontakt (loads), Spitfire Studio Strings, Session Strings Pro 2, Dune, Spire, Shreddage, BFD3, Izotope Neutron & Ozone mixing for idiots like me

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BlitBit
KVRist
179 posts since 28 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:57 am

michaeltn86 wrote:I don't remember where I saw this nor it's trash metal
[...]
Long delay times will give you "trash metal" whereas short delay times will give you "thrash metal". :hihi:

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donkey tugger
Boss Lovin' DR
4705 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:16 pm

Wellll, mostly short..

Even the mighty Slayer used longer reverbs for effect in the slower sections, even on Reign in Blood. If you listen to the bit from 2.10 for example, quite a bit of length there (missus). Horses for courses and all that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8ZqFlw6hYg

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Boone777
KVRian
629 posts since 8 Aug, 2011

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:01 pm

Here is a good place for metal mix tips http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/foru ... sneap-foh/
Win 7, 64Bit, 16 Gig RAM, Intel i7 Quad 3.9, Reaper 5.62, Steinberg MR816x

User avatar
kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
2182 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:18 pm

This thread has been really really helpful with the tune I've been working on, which has a lot of fast metal guitar/bass chugga-chugga and weird spiney lead.

I never dared use such short plates before (no one told me to :dog: ), but they feel perfect. All the liveness, none of the mush.

Hooray

And huge thanks to all

:D
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger (Still top), Kontakt (loads), Spitfire Studio Strings, Session Strings Pro 2, Dune, Spire, Shreddage, BFD3, Izotope Neutron & Ozone mixing for idiots like me

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zentatonic
KVRist
135 posts since 16 Mar, 2004

Re: any advice on using reverb in thrash metal?

Post Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:02 pm

Most of the old school thrash bands were anti reverb. Producers needed to sneak it in moderation if it was used at all.

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