KVR Audio

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:58 pm

beely wrote: They are talking about piano models. There is no sustain, only attack and decay. In a piano, the looping is all in the decay portion of the tone.

I get it now!

The decay of a piano is pretty short but would still take up a lot of sampling space if you want to record a lot of velocity levels. Not that I would hear the difference between a decently sampled piano and a hyper-realistic one.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:02 pm

T-CM11 wrote:
beely wrote: They are talking about piano models. There is no sustain, only attack and decay. In a piano, the looping is all in the decay portion of the tone.
I get it now! The decay of a piano is pretty short ...

Actually, no, it can last for many seconds (more than 10), especially in the lower strings, if we hit the key really hard, with the dampers lifted. And there are all those sympathetic resonances also. A piano is a very complex piece of machinery.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:09 pm

fmr wrote: I never said it was meant to run Windows. I said it is a computer, which I guess noone can dispute. Sure, nowadays, our refrigerator, our hoaven, our laundry machine, our microwave, all have small one-purpose computers built-in. We may not think about them as computers, but that doesn't change what they are.

And our smartphones, or the GPS, or the "computer" in some cars, what are they? Yet, we can't run Windows on them either (well, we can, in some smartphones )

It's all about context. Nobody imagines a birdwatcher staring at chickens even though they're birds too.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:21 pm

T-CM11 wrote: It's all about context. Nobody imagines a birdwatcher staring at chickens even though they're birds too.

You are funny

I guess it depends on the chickens

: http://www.savagechickens.com/

https://www.google.pt/search?q=exotic+s ... Rcc73UN9MM:

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:32 pm

fmr wrote:
T-CM11 wrote: It's all about context. Nobody imagines a birdwatcher staring at chickens even though they're birds too.
You are funny

I always loved (personal) computers! But also love tinkering with hardware synths, making field recordings, abusing acoustic instruments, ... I never felt like one replaced the other. But I'm sure there are a lot of musicians around that started using computers once their day job pushed them to, and hate it.

braj · Post by **braj** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:12 am

I don't think it is the System 8 hardware that is the issue, but support from Roland going forward, for the whole system. I hope they continue with it, because it is just what I would like, I only want to see the plugout cloud subscription usable on the hardware without waiting a year to use each synth. Plus it would be really cool if Roland also made some non-Roland clones, a Minimoog and an Arp etc. would make the thing a really flexible synth.

beely · Post by **beely** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:19 am

braj wrote:Plus it would be really cool if Roland also made some non-Roland clones, a Minimoog and an Arp etc. would make the thing a really flexible synth.

The world really doesn't need any more Minimoog or Odyssey emulations, imo. Roland should do Roland, imo, there is enough good stuff there to keep them going for a while...

braj · Post by **braj** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:22 am

beely wrote:
braj wrote:Plus it would be really cool if Roland also made some non-Roland clones, a Minimoog and an Arp etc. would make the thing a really flexible synth.
The world really doesn't need any more Minimoog or Odyssey emulations, imo. Roland should do Roland, imo, there is enough good stuff there to keep them going for a while...

Well, they already released a Minimoog clone in hardware, and there aren't really any other plugout systems currently on the market that could do this.

Aliens · Post by **Aliens** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:26 am

Agreed. No more minis or Odysseys, especially from Roland.
Do decent non cloud vstis of the Jp6, mks80 and jP8000 at some time, when the graphics and browsers have had some love, and I'd be tempted.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:08 am

I also got a system 8 and I am very happy with it.

I have tried all the "integrated" controllers for softsynths: novation automap line, akai VIP, Komplete Kontrol, Arturia keylab, push and madchne and all of them suck, they simply doesn't compare to programming a good UI as the S8 or any other synth with a ton of knobs. Trying to program synths surfing through pages of 8 parameters isn't quick or fun. Also: they don't look as synths, and that's what makes the S8 very different and actually useful for programming the plugouts in the DAW. And it is quite good for other synths with substractive architecture as Diva or Repro. The fact you have 8 sliders for two envelopes and they always control envelopes makes such a big difference compared to generic controllers which have 8 knobs.

I think the S8 Is a great concept really, a dedicated synth with the ability to host different engines which can also be used as plugins, it is far beyond more easy ITB to use than other attempts as the Virus Ti, the ultranova or KK. For those who go out it is also very useful to be able to carry the sounds you program ITB.

The problem is Roland with it's mediocre development, by now they should have lugouts of synths out of the Roland range, emulations OBX, Prophet, CS80, Mininoog, etc. They are underselling and underdevelopment their own technology.

braj · Post by **braj** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:36 am

rod_zero wrote: The problem is Roland with it's mediocre development, by now they should have lugouts of synths out of the Roland range, emulations OBX, Prophet, CS80, Mininoog, etc. They are underselling and underdevelopment their own technology.

Exactly. MAybe they will eventually deliver, but the Roland Cloud so far to me isn't encouraging.

rezoneight · Post by **rezoneight** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:12 pm

fmr wrote:
I never said it was meant to run Windows. I said it is a computer, which I guess noone can dispute. Sure, nowadays, our refrigerator, our hoaven, our laundry machine, our microwave, all have small one-purpose computers built-in. We may not think about them as computers, but that doesn't change what they are.

My car is not a computer. Neither is my washing machine. Do they have embedded computers for control? Certainly but they are not computers.

My iPhone is a computer...it’s got supporting chips, etc. for other functions but at its heart it’s a general purpose computer.

The System-8 is walking a fine line but yeah I’d have to agree it’s pretty much a specialized computer. Not that I really care one way or another. It produces pleasing sounds and is a fun instrument to play.

T-CM11 · Post by **T-CM11** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:23 pm

rezoneight wrote: My car is not a computer. Neither is my washing machine. Do they have embedded computers for control? Certainly but they are not computers.

Better hide, the semantics police is now after you!

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:14 pm

The argument about digital synths being a computer are void of substance.

What is the goal of putting such an argument forward?

1.- To descredit the instrument because it uses a CPU? why is that important? does it make any difference in the enjoyment of the artist? or that makes it inferior to analog?

2.- To compare it to a computer? well, taking out the computer to play virtual instruments is more of a chore: laptop, interface, midi controller and cables and well you don't get all the controls on the S8. How is that comparable as an instrument? I guess for those that are only in the studio it is almost the same using the instrument ITB or HW but the UI of the HW does make a difference if you don't care about it great for you but many people find tweaking virtual knobs with a mouse boring or a chore.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:42 pm

rod_zero wrote:The argument about digital synths being a computer are void of substance.

What is the goal of putting such an argument forward?

1.- To discredit the instrument because it uses a CPU? why is that important? does it make any difference in the enjoyment of the artist? or that makes it inferior to analog?

How about reading ALL of what was written?

rod_zero wrote: 2.- To compare it to a computer? well, taking out the computer to play virtual instruments is more of a chore: laptop, interface, midi controller and cables and well you don't get all the controls on the S8. How is that comparable as an instrument? I guess for those that are only in the studio it is almost the same using the instrument ITB or HW but the UI of the HW does make a difference if you don't care about it great for you but many people find tweaking virtual knobs with a mouse boring or a chore.

How about reading ALL of what was written, before posting something?

I could repost what I personally wrote, but I guess it's pointless. Everything has Pros and Cons. It's all about choices. No one is dismissing anything. And when you take out "to play" you will not be tweaking much - maybe a couple of parameters, at most, and those can be perfectly handled by the controller.

"the UI of the HW does make a difference"... as does the price, the flexibility, the updating maintenance, etc. etc. Again, it's all about choices and needs.

As I said, in the past several attempts were made to come up with a generic hardware synthesizer/controller that could be modified by software (actually, the first attempt, AFAIK, was made by Wolfgang Palm in the distant year of 1986, with the PPG Realizer - http://wolfgangpalm.com/story/c14.html).

Up to now, ALL attempts may be counted as failures. The Roland System-8 has some specifications that may help it in being succeeded... but those same specifications also make it the less flexible of all of the attempts so far. I guess in a year from now we will have a good picture of how it succeeded or not.