Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
braj
KVRAF
9090 posts since 5 Feb, 2004

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:08 am

fmr wrote:
Spitfire31 wrote:iPad version?
Yes, it's the iPad version. The editing is much more focused in wavesequences (see the first window), kind of neglecting the other components of the sound.
What exactly is neglected? I really don't know the synth enough to see what is missing.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new

User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
12010 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:15 am

Examigan wrote:
Teksonik wrote:Why "dumb down" the plugin to make it sound like the hardware ? :?
I was thinking it would be nice to have as an option. In the new DX7 V for instance there is a setting you can use that is similar. From the manual:

"The earliest version of the DX-7 used a 12-bit DAC (digital-to-analog converter) and analog
companding circuitry in its final output stage. This is very low-resolution audio by today's
standards, but nevertheless has a certain appeal. So in the interest of recreating the exact
experience of owning one of the original DX-7 synthesizers we have included Vintage and
Modern options for the final output stage."
As I mentioend above there also seemed to be a difference between the the Wavestation SR rack and the older hardware Wavestation versions where the SR sounded more "Hi-Fi".
My guess is taht the plugin was doen based on teh Sr rack, aslo as it includes all 11 factory banks of the SR that in this way were not included with the keyboards and the A/D rack (EX keyboards has 2 RAM banks, 1 ROM bank and anotheravailable from a RAM/ROM card).
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

User avatar
fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12018 posts since 5 Jun, 2012 from Portugal

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:44 am

Could someone tell me the actual GUI size in pixels so that I can google for a WS image of the same size and see whether it would be big enough now that I use glasses :)

User avatar
braj
KVRAF
9090 posts since 5 Feb, 2004

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:48 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Could someone tell me the actual GUI size in pixels so that I can google for a WS image of the same size and see whether it would be big enough now that I use glasses :)
I just checked and this is exactly the same size as my plugin. 792x452 per Google.

Image
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new

User avatar
sinemotor
KVRist
126 posts since 24 Dec, 2015

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:58 am

I hope we get the iPad GUI for the VST version (both M1 & Wavestation actually), it makes the workflow much easier. They look like two different synths actually.

User avatar
beely
KVRAF
1571 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:49 am

I haven't used the iPad version (I don't get much practical milage out of iPad synths), but looking at the UI it looks a bit of a confusing mess to program.

I'm not sure showing the actual wave forms of the samples used in wave sequences is that helpful - just seems useless visual clutter, more intended to look cool than useful. For anyone that has extensively programmed the WS - how is the "new" gui in terms of usability compared to the old stuff?

Edit: Ok, watched the video, it seems once you get outside the multi-coloured wave page, the interface looks better overall. Not as hardware-inspired as the M1 interface, but still nicer to use, which is the main thing...

(I know the plugin's UI is not great, it's basically the hardware interface laid out on screen, but I always found programming the hardware WS to be one of the better-designed interfaces for synths of that time, considering the complexity of it...)

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
7601 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:25 am

sinemotor wrote:I hope we get the iPad GUI for the VST version (both M1 & Wavestation actually), it makes the workflow much easier. They look like two different synths actually.
Indeed... One looks like a synth, the other looks like a toy... :roll:

I hope they keep the current GUIs, just with some workflow improvements (like the possibility to type values when editing the envelope segments, for example, instead of just drag'n drop). I was inspecting the editing screens for the Wavestation, and it seems there are a lot of missing elements, and the overall Performance and Patch architecture is not clear.

To someone that is used to the hardware, editing software like Sound Diver, etc., the VST editing GUI is much better - it just needs to be bigger (like twice the size).

Of course, if they could create a dedicated editing window, that got rid of the wasted space on the left, that would be even better, but the global structure of the VST instruments GUIs is superior to the iOS version, IMO.

For example with these sizes (1500 x 947 pixels), I think the GUIs would be perfectly manageable:

WS Performance Editing window:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e4lU0w ... sp=sharing

WS Patch Editing window:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aNo6q8 ... sp=sharing

M1 Program Osc Editing:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-P4hSv ... sp=sharing

M1 Program Filter Editing:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZYzW4C ... sp=sharing
Last edited by fmr on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:45 am, edited 5 times in total.
Fernando (FMR)

User avatar
jacqueslacouth
KVRian
849 posts since 18 Nov, 2004

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:35 am

Just to clarify (I've noticed the term thrown around a bit recently}, when a sound is described as more "Hi-Fi", is this a good thing or a bad thing? It always seems to read like the sound is sort of consumer grade, artificially coloured for the uncultured plebs and not pure enough for the superior, beard wearing, in the know types....

Or am I just being tainted by the OTT wankery that is so prevalent on the web these days...

But on topic, I have owned a couple of WS over the years (the two rack ones) and was happy to offload both when I got the VST. To my ears (admittedly not the best these days), it pretty well nails the hardware and is more than close enough when applied to the same task in any mix. But yes, as my eyes fade rapidly with age and diabetes, a larger interface would be great.

User avatar
beely
KVRAF
1571 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:41 am

jacqueslacouth wrote:Just to clarify (I've noticed the term thrown around a bit recently}, when a sound is described as more "Hi-Fi", is this a good thing or a bad thing?
*Objectively*, in terms of specs - clearer sound, less distortion, cleaner highs, more true to the original sample content, less coloured by the convertors, greater frequency range = good thing

*Subjectively*, in terms of preferences - it depends entirely on the user's tastes. Some see a crisp, digital, undistorted sound as clinical, cold, sterile, lacking life. Others see it as brighter, clearer, better. There are no definitives here, it's purely what you prefer. Some people prefer music on vinyl, despite the horrendous things it does to audio...
jacqueslacouth wrote:It always seems to read like the sound is sort of consumer grade, artificially coloured for the uncultured plebs and not pure enough for the superior, beard wearing, in the know types....
No idea what you mean, here. What you read into things is down to you, and might be quite different to the intended meaning...
jacqueslacouth wrote:But on topic, I have owned a couple of WS over the years (the two rack ones) and was happy to offload both when I got the VST. To my ears (admittedly not the best these days), it pretty well nails the hardware and is more than close enough when applied to the same task in any mix. But yes, as my eyes fade rapidly with age and diabetes, a larger interface would be great.
+1

Cinebient
KVRAF
3614 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:44 am

If the plug-in just had the randomize feature of the iOS version. Most useful randomizer in a synth so far.

Cinebient
KVRAF
3614 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:45 am

fmr wrote:
sinemotor wrote:I hope we get the iPad GUI for the VST version (both M1 & Wavestation actually), it makes the workflow much easier. They look like two different synths actually.
Indeed... One looks like a synth, the other looks like a toy... :roll:

I hope they keep the current GUIs, just with some workflow improvements (like the possibility to type values when editing the envelope segments, for example, instead of just drag'n drop). I was inspecting the editing screens for the Wavestation, and it seems there are a lot of missing elements, and the overall Performance and Patch architecture is not clear.

To someone that is used to the hardware, editing software like Sound Diver, etc., the VST editing GUI is much better - it just needs to be bigger (like twice the size).

Of course, if they could create a dedicated editing window, that got rid of the wasted space on the left, that would be even better, but the global structure of the VST instruments GUIs is superior to the iOS version, IMO.

For example with these sizes, I think the GUIs would be perfectly manageable:

WS Performance Editing window:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e4lU0w ... sp=sharing

WS Patch Editing window:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aNo6q8 ... sp=sharing

M1 Program Osc Editing:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-P4hSv ... sp=sharing

M1 Program Filter Editing:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZYzW4C ... sp=sharing
You are still stuck in the past :wink:
And you can be sure that the updated GUI will look like the iOS versions.
Last edited by Cinebient on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Teksonik
KVRAF
11482 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:45 am

beely wrote: we love our distortion and our saturation stages in our quest for character.
Ummm no we don't. :wink:

Ok whatever, if you want to make the plugin sound worse just to emulate the hardware then party on. I would find it a waste of time. To each his own.
beely wrote:the software sounds *better*
:shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

User avatar
beely
KVRAF
1571 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:45 am

Cinebient wrote:If the plug-in just had the randomize feature of the iOS version. Most useful randomizer in a synth so far.
Is it possible to export patches from the iOS version and import them into the plugin?

User avatar
fmr
KVRAF
7601 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:49 am

Cinebient wrote: You are still stuck in the past :wink:
These ARE from the past :D

If you want something from now, there are plenty of alternatives

Anyway, just looking at the screenshots in the Korg site, it seems like there are a lot of parameters not accessible (or immediately visible) in the iPad GUIs. But I can't be sure, since I never used those. And the overall sound structure is not clear, IMO. For example, someone that have the iWavestation, can post screenshots of the editing screens of a complex Performance like "Ski Jam"?
Cinebient wrote: And you can be sure that the updated GUI will look like the iOS versions.
:smack: :x :x :x
Last edited by fmr on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

Cinebient
KVRAF
3614 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Wavestation Shootout: Hardware vs. VST

Post Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:51 am

fmr wrote:
Cinebient wrote: You are still stuck in the past :wink:
And you can be sure that the updated GUI will look like the iOS versions.
These ARE from the past :D

If you want something from now, there are plenty of alternatives

Anyway, just looking at the screenshots in the Korg site, it seems like there are a lot of parameters not accessible (or immediately visible) in the iPad GUIs. But I can't be sure, since I never used those. And the overall sound structure is not clear, IMO. For example, someone that have the iWavestation, can post screenshots of the editing screens of a complex Performance like "Ski Jam"?
Cinebient wrote: And you can be sure that the updated GUI will look like the iOS versions.
:smack: :x :x :x
The iOS version has more editing features!

Return to “Instruments”