Workflow problem (seemingly)

[Oneyejoe]

So Ive been producing for about 2 years now, used to work exclusively in FL12, just made the switch to Ableton recently. Finally somewhat used to the new DAW, I sat down and decided try finishing a Dubstep/Riddim song, In about 2 sittings in a span of about 2 hours and some change I finished a decent intro/build and mixed it nicely so its clean.. not too bad of progress..

But then I got to the drop...

I then struggled for about 4 or 5 days of multiple sittings trying to make a heavy bass sound I was happy with, FINALLY came up with something that sounds pretty decent, using up quite a bit of CPU at this point. I make the first part of the drop, sounds quite nice, then I have no idea where to continue. Im back to beating my head against a wall... and the song length right now is about 55 seconds... Not even 1 minute into the song.. (drop starts at 0:35 seconds) which even if I extended my intro by another 10 or 20 seconds it wouldn't make too much a difference.

I basically have the songs mastering done (I tend to do my mastering with what I put on each bus while making the song)

I really want to be able to finish Dubstep/Riddim songs.. Because as of now Im beginning to get super sick of listening to that same song.

Any suggestions?.. for better workflow or anything? Because with heavy dubstep and riddim, it involves really good sound design, and you pretty much gotta have the mastering finished by the time you get to the drop to know how the song is and will play out..

I dont get how people can finish dubstep tracks in such a short time of 2-8 hours..

I really dont mean to make this a crybaby post but I guess I could use some kind of advice. Maybe Im approaching things incorrectly?
Or maybe I just suck with that genre and its not meant to be lol.

Any suggestions or advice is appreciated, maybe insight on how you guys go about slamming out songs?
(if anyone here makes the wobs)

[Distorted Horizon]

First, lower your expectations..

Focus more on making full songs instead of "mastering" before you even have anything ready. More stuff you get finished = more stuff you learn. If "mastering" is part of sound design, use a limiter instead if you want to slam the dynamics into sausage.

Cpu hit can be avoided by bouncing, though the wubs I've done, I've always bounced everything since it gives more control.

SeamlessR has great vids in youtube, you could learn alot from those.

If you struggle with arrangement, open a song you like in your DAW and copy the arrangement from there. Don't want to because it won't be yours then? No worries. It's propably copied from somewhere else.

Make a song without trying to make any genre, just go where the inspiration takes you.

Look for a cat, give it a kiss, pet it.

Enjoy.

[DJ Warmonger]

Because with heavy dubstep and riddim, it involves really good sound design, and you pretty much gotta have the mastering finished by the time you get to the drop

Nope. You don't even know what "mastering" means, so better give it up for a long time now.

First learn how to make grooves, variations and different parts of a song. See how others aproach it. Don't expect it to be perfect first time.

[imrae]

It's worth mentioning that dubstep is hard. I suggest writing some tunes that are more melody-based. It's easier to leave the fine mixing details until later and let the musical ideas inspire each other.

In a good musical composition there are contrasting sections which have some kind of relationship between them. Quite a bit of dubstep does a poor job of this, because it's actually really hard to make a screechy drop musically relate to "generic intro #5". It's even harder if you think you already finished writing the intro.

Try to start with sketches that aren't brilliantly produced but have a structure and feel musical. Then tweak the production, make it tighter and more intense, see what can be stripped back if you like...

[Oneyejoe]

I appreciate your guys input here, seriously I do.

I have been taking reference tracks in and the mix/ "master" sounds good to me.. Checked SPAN's graph and all, and Im becoming confident in my mixes/"masters". My mixes are not the best by any means but that's not the issue i'm having at the moment

I guess the problem I am really having is making a good sounding bass that im happy with, **in a decent amount of time**. As well as being able to wrap my head around how to arrange the bass sounds in such a way that sounds rhythmic/pattern based..
Because anytime ever, when I have tried making dubstep, I have never been able to make a bass sound that I was happy with, that I want to have in MY music. Ive finally made one, after what felt like forever. Then let alone making some catchy patter with it. Which I made a decent pattern for a good portion of the drop. But then I just kinda froze. Like a screaming halt, and I dont know how to continue the drop keeping things sounding good..

I suppose I am also beating myself up a little too much, anytime I have time to produce its for about 2 maybe 3 hours at night if i'm lucky and its been a bit and everything sounds great next to my reference track! But im hardly a minute into the song and im semi worn out and almost sick of hearing that song.

Back when I was into Tech House I could finish tracks in about a week. I had finished a whole bunch but my mixes were not all that great at the time. With Dubstep I seem to struggle..

I could try finishing an arrangement with very very light mixing, but again that begs my question of how do I get a bass sound that Im happy committing to the song, without doing heavy mixing/"mastering" If that makes sense?..
You say throw a limiter to squash it which I have somewhat.. idk, ill post up a private Soundcloud link when I get home showing what I have done with it so far.

*My apologies, i'm somewhat flustered and scatter brained over the issue, plus im naturally a somewhat anxious person lol*

Again ill post the progress when I get home.
Thank you guys

[Kinh]

I make the first part of the drop, sounds quite nice, then I have no idea where to continue.

This problem comes from overthinking. the next section should contain elements of whatever precedes it. That's all electronic music is; different variations of the same thing. You've got the right tools...auditioning clips in ableton. That's all 'the next section' requires, just a nack of figuring out what to take out and what to put in based on what strucutre's already there.
This is why Ableton is hands down the greatest daw for electronic, it's very clip-centric. Learn to work with clips and how to build different parts derived from what you got. Otherwise there will be no flow from section to section, it'll just sound like two songs forced together like a couple of heterosexual chicks doing a lesbian scene in a porno. Shit, it's all about Z flow.

[Oneyejoe]

I make the first part of the drop, sounds quite nice, then I have no idea where to continue.

This problem comes from overthinking. the next section should contain elements of whatever precedes it. That's all electronic music is; different variations of the same thing.

Very true, I tend to overthink quite a bit, it just gets me because I used to finish Tech House tracks somewhat quickly. Within about a week itd be done, although my mixes were not that great. I really am overthinking it though..

Anyways Here's a playlist for the reference track and my track. The style is way different obviously, it sounds more like some wonky Riddim you'd hear from Oolacile or something. Mix is not the best but that's something that will come in time. As it has been slowly but surely.
ANY advice on any aspect of it is appreciated. Mix wise, arrangement, anything.

As promised.
https://soundcloud.com/oneyejoe/sets/here/s-ZSa5q

[imrae]

There's a big arrangement difference between these two. If you count groups of 4 or 8 bars, the ref track has its vocal sample and odd breakbeat thing in bars before the drop. The actual drop begins with kick and bass, and they lead the section with the samples acting as "rests" from the bass.

In your track, the drop begins with a vocal sample and a hipassed breakbeat. The bass enters syncopated and without any audible low-end in my headphones, which means I can't distinguish what note it is supposed to function as. The result is that instead of processing it as "sick sound the song is built around" my brain filters it as "some rando percussion or something".

[jordonpmusic]

House producer here. I start with making the drop part and the general groove I want to convey. I then chisel away intros, builds etc. Means I'm not banging my head trying to come up with a powerful drop. Worth a try to start with the drop?

[legendCNCD]

House producer here. I start with making the drop part and the general groove I want to convey. I then chisel away intros, builds etc. Means I'm not banging my head trying to come up with a powerful drop. Worth a try to start with the drop?

House/Techno/SpaceTechno/Chillout..
Almost the same, I start with the place where I make the main part of the tune, then I start removing stuff for intros and other parts. This way I've noticed, the breaks and rises come naturally usually.

[Oneyejoe]

House producer here. I start with making the drop part and the general groove I want to convey. I then chisel away intros, builds etc. Means I'm not banging my head trying to come up with a powerful drop. Worth a try to start with the drop?

I was actually thinking about doing something like that, Ive been seeing a lot of producers like even Virtual Riot doing just that. Only thing thats been stopping me is ive never done it like that yet so it intimidates me, but I will definitely give that a go!
I cant be afraid to try new things.

[Oneyejoe]

There's a big arrangement difference between these two. If you count groups of 4 or 8 bars, the ref track has its vocal sample and odd breakbeat thing in bars before the drop. The actual drop begins with kick and bass, and they lead the section with the samples acting as "rests" from the bass.

In your track, the drop begins with a vocal sample and a hipassed breakbeat. The bass enters syncopated and without any audible low-end in my headphones, which means I can't distinguish what note it is supposed to function as. The result is that instead of processing it as "sick sound the song is built around" my brain filters it as "some rando percussion or something".

You are right about the missing low end. It is there, and I did set up multi band processing for it but even then you can hardly tell its there. Youre correct, and upon further inspection I may be over processing things. Mentally and physically in my project haha. Ill be paying closer attention to details for my next arrangement.

[Oneyejoe]

There's a big arrangement difference between these two. If you count groups of 4 or 8 bars, the ref track has its vocal sample and odd breakbeat thing in bars before the drop. The actual drop begins with kick and bass, and they lead the section with the samples acting as "rests" from the bass.

In your track, the drop begins with a vocal sample and a hipassed breakbeat. The bass enters syncopated and without any audible low-end in my headphones, which means I can't distinguish what note it is supposed to function as. The result is that instead of processing it as "sick sound the song is built around" my brain filters it as "some rando percussion or something".

You are right about the missing low end. It is there, and I did set up multi band processing for it but even then you can hardly tell its there. Youre correct, and upon further inspection I may be over processing things. Mentally and physically in my project haha. Ill be paying closer attention to details for my next arrangement.

[Oneyejoe]

Idk why it posted this reply twice, woops

[jordonpmusic]

House producer here. I start with making the drop part and the general groove I want to convey. I then chisel away intros, builds etc. Means I'm not banging my head trying to come up with a powerful drop. Worth a try to start with the drop?

House/Techno/SpaceTechno/Chillout..
Almost the same, I start with the place where I make the main part of the tune, then I start removing stuff for intros and other parts. This way I've noticed, the breaks and rises come naturally usually.

Agreed, it becomes more of a chore to make intros/builds etc. The main fun you have is developing the main groove but then since it's the most important part of the track sure it should be the first thing you work on?