Plugin Alliance: PickPack any 10 Plugins, $29 per month, 29 months, Own Them

[jens]

Well, if it pans out at roughly 85$ per plugin, personally I don't care whether it's three plugins or five or ten. There's no way it's gonna happen - and considering the unrealistic standard prices of most of their plugins, it's probably not a good idea for them to go below that either - which is exactly the problem with the whole ordeal: how to save face while saying a plugin's price is 299$ and gladly handing it over for 30$ at the same time.

The Valhalla way of doing business is different: ask 50$ for a plugin straight away, never discount it.

Guess which one I respect more.

[soulone82]

Guess which one I respect more.

PA?

[thecontrolcentre]

Its a great deal for people with limited cash flow, altho its gonna cost more in the end than buying secondhand, or waiting for sales ... but for me its a no-go. I already have most of the PA stuff I want, most of which I got in sales, or secondhand (or free from UA, bless 'em). Just picked up Cleansweep Pro today for $17 ($145 at PA shop) for example.

[3ee]

PA "pickpocket"

[michaeltn86]

it's a great deal for pros and people joining the market. and that's the most appealing market because it's people willing to spend.

the downside is that PA will not have the high profit products anymore.

usually, a company needs to balance average income with high profit products in my experience.

like slate, their annual subscription is incredibly competitive and caused a price shift in lots of developers.

but they compensate with people entering the market and pro with their other products (microphone, software like slate drums, their lcd stuff etc). the same can be said for Waves or presonus for instance.

pretty impressive business perspective imo. and that opened the possibility to enter "mass production" at competitive costs. people are not aware how freight / quantity / components play an impressive role on pricing.

also worthy to mention that Pa is tied to UA. so, there will be lots of change in this rent to own products and how they market their stuff in the near future I presume. they need to figure out a lot of more stuff. but their main obstacle is their relationship with UA in my understanding.

that said, I think PA, Waves and Slate are some of the companies that understand business very well and they frequently try to adapt and improve their business practices. after all the music market software is surprisingly very small and piracy is huge.

people here in kvr (at least since I started reading the forum) are the consumer in between (not entering the market and not exactly pro, most of the time).

they have a collection (so they don't really need more plugins), usually more concerned about pricing and have some unrealistic views business wise (well, musicians do try to be different kind of people).

if I were a software company for instance, this would be the least appealing "niche", but still a revenue as they are at least trying to buy software (io piracying for example).

the middle developers (the ones not big and not small) are the ones that are suffering the most with the competitive prices of Waves / Slates / PA. and they also need to figure out how to improve business wise.

anyway, this is just me talking to myself and posting on the internet. figures...

[ATS]

Its a great deal for people with limited cash flow, altho its gonna cost more in the end than buying secondhand, or waiting for sales ... but for me its a no-go. I already have most of the PA stuff I want, most of which I got in sales, or secondhand (or free from UA, bless 'em). Just picked up Cleansweep Pro today for $17 ($145 at PA shop) for example.

these things are probably the reason people have limited cash flow in the start.

[MogwaiBoy]

The deep discounts have probably ultimately hurt PA. Probably the huge success of their initial Christmas advent sales (starting a few years ago, before all this monthly voucher stuff) meant that they didn't want cashflow to become seasonal - so they decided to keep the part going with monthly vouchers and further sales. It's really devalued their entire range now and at this point you'd feel like a fool paying full price.

Still - they have held onto some semblance of "high-end plugin = high-end price" with the Consoles and some of their newer ones.

Don't get me wrong, I love me some cheap goodies!! I just wonder if PA are struggling to find the right bizz model and maybe they're in a bit of financial trouble? Waves seem to be able to pull off the super deep discount thing by having sheer number (and variety) of very well established plugins, pushing for max exposure with huge marketing power and endorsements. PA can't really compete in that "fastfood" space.

On topic.. I think the Rent To Own model is more worthy than subscription (I like owning stuff).

[Jax Pok]

Well, if it pans out at roughly 85$ per plugin, personally I don't care whether it's three plugins or five or ten. There's no way it's gonna happen - and considering the unrealistic standard prices of most of their plugins, it's probably not a good idea for them to go below that either - which is exactly the problem with the whole ordeal: how to save face while saying a plugin's price is 299$ and gladly handing it over for 30$ at the same time.

The Valhalla way of doing business is different: ask 50$ for a plugin straight away, never discount it.

Guess which one I respect more.

Do be fair though ValhallaDSP have less overheads extremely good plugins.

[ATN69]

Direct quote from Dirk / Pluginalliance,

You don’t “have to” buy using a PickPack. It’s just an option, and a very attractive offer. We will not stop selling plugins ‘the regular way’, and we won’t stop intro pricing and discounts.

[jens]

Do be fair though ValhallaDSP have less overheads extremely good plugins.

Yes, of course - but firs of all I as a customer / potential customer am not willing to pay for that.

And then they have/release WAY more products than Valhalla of course. They have someone writing the manuals, someone doing the GUIs, someone doing the support, someone maintaining the Website, etc. if they are fulltime employees, they should also all be busy fulltime, so their wage is being paid for by the amount of their combined output - all work that in case of Valhalla Sean mostly handles himself. He only releases one new product every few years, yet he still is able to release absolutely free of charge high Quality product (SpaceModulator) for his customers that is more complex / feature-rich than many of the PA plugins - not severely cut down version of another product but instead a completely new one.

But unlike some PA plugins, all the Valhalla GUIs are very functional and well thought through.
On the other hand For instance the MUSEQ GUI is a tragedy. It's like they sketched that up in half an hour by simply copying 1:1 the GUI of the hardware - it's been a really shoddy job - how a project manager could ever agree to release something half-baked like that is beyond me.

When I first tried it I was like "wow - that thing sounds fantastic" - back then I purchased it during a sale.
That was more or less the last time I used it. Whenever I try to use it again I'm like "so how do the f**king controls on this plugin exactly work again? And then I have to check the manual (I understood the basci principle, thank you very much) - On an EQ - I kid you not!

And the output control for instance is a tiny tiny little thing. This control is - due to the required A/B comparison - generally the most crucial one on any plugin which alters the gain.
But there's the huge round thing on the GUI (by far the biggest element on the entire GUI) that does basically nothing. Why on earth did they not use its outer ring as a gain control? Why not - unless they did the GUI in twenty minutes, spilling coffee and Snickers-bar crumbs all over the sketch and talking to the GF on the phone in the process of doing so?

So: expensiveness does not equal quality / development time.

I spend between one and two grands on software every year (and I do not make a single cent with / from my music - I never tried). The sum of it is shared between whatever I consider a good deal for whatever reason (a mixture of an evaluation of different individual qualities of both the company and the product in question).

85€ per plugin for a bundle of ten PA plugins? Are you f**king kidding me? I do not need any further plugin - I have way too many anyway - and I - for instance - still have spent more than 100€ on plugins this month, while my monthly PA voucher for february stays unused yet again.

[jens]

it's a great deal for pros and people joining the market. and that's the most appealing market because it's people willing to spend.

I have far more software than the few pro studios I personally know.

[rod_zero]

Interesting idea, a bit expensive I think given their usual discounts. But the main problem is that I find Pa stuff quite "samey" but I don't like having 3 versions of the same effect, or 10 eq's.

if Ni did it I would jump over it in a second.

[jens]

Yes, exactly - that's what I meant when I wrote:

One think to keep in mind is that PA mostly offer more of the same and most of the plugins are rather limited in functionality...

there are some exceptions like the UA stuff and I totally love the Vertigo Mix Satellite, but mostly it's yet another compressor, single amp sim, equalizer, etc.

[michaeltn86]

Hi Jens, I like ur posts and usually read them, but I often find them too extreme, but always a good read.

I'm not saying that people in the middle are not attractive, but if u had to choose between, for instance, 100 people willing to spend USD 10 vs 1 person willing to spend USD 1000, in my opinion the 100 people spending USD 10 is far more attractive, especially considering software market (as it moves too fast).

that's why I said that, besides sheer quantity and stable revenue, it's good to have a "unique big profit products".

as an different business approach, let's take Valhalla as an example (which has a superb business practice in my opinion).

it seems competitive compared to other reverb companies, but they split different reverbs in different softwares, so the total price of the reverbs is a nice amount in the end. further, the developer is charismatic and one man. and it focus on a specific kind of software, delay / reverb.

the steady prices makes the "collector" type of person feel confident and cause a big positive impression in the overall experience; but it's not exactly cheap for example. but it's difficult to compare Valhalla business model against aggressive marketing like PA / Waves / Slate.

but if you want to compare different business approach, my suggestion is to pay attention to the "total" possible expenditure that you can do at Valhalla. it's 5 plugins at USD 50. that totals USD 250.

Now, that's a good number! and extremely good if u can make the people entering the market buying them (or most of them, or all of them).

Now that we have a "comparable" number, let's take Wave's business approach. USD 29 plugin. if u buy one plugin per month USD 348.

Now, SLATE's subscription, USD 179,88. Now, PA rent to own, USD 348 if u consider 1 year (USD 29 X 12).

So it's pretty funny the fact that plugins developers have a similar amount of USD when u do the math. that's when comparing business approach are worthy in my honest opinion. and when u break down that, u start to understand lots of stuff.

for instance, "boutique" and "high end" reverbs plugins, range from USD 150 - 300. kinda funny if u think about it.

"unique digital plugins" , they range between USD 150-300. that's pretty mind blowing.

when u think about "target" and what developers are aiming, it's kinda of funny that somehow they are "within" a range, despite charging different prices for a plugin and having totally different business approach.

the cool discussion in this topic would foresee problems and trends for the future of plugins (and not compare apple to orange business approach, though I do understand how u feel about rebranded plugins, I have been a victim too!!!).

will comment about PA for example as this topic is about PA. the problem with this rent to own stuff is that PA will not attract "high end plugins / stuff that can charge a lot" kinda of developers. for instance, 3d surround companies.

their "high profit" products is gone (and will likely not come back if they don't have an ace upon their sleeve), and they don't have other business besides their relation with UA, which is kinda limiting as the way it is now.

as a comparative, take WAVES or SLATE as a comparison. they went the "competitive" route, but they still have the high profit products "INTACT".

Further, 29 months is a lot of time, so even though they can "get" lots of people at the beginning, I'm not sure how people will feel in 29 months.

but guess what? 9 out of 10 people that start guitar playing don't go past the 2nd year. so actually, if this kinda of business succeed is good, to PA, to the customers, and to the PRO. to the customer in between, not a very good deal imo.

as the math made above, if u can 348 year per person, it's a wonderful revenue. imagine that "music" is teached since middle school, and you have an insanely huge market all of sudden to plugin developers. but the way the market is now, it's actually very very very very very very small.

now, someone in this thread asked "I just wonder if PA are struggling to find the right bizz model and maybe they're in a bit of financial trouble?". and when u do the math, it's clear that they are not in financial trouble.

the ones that might be in the financial trouble are the plugin developers, hence my comment about mid size companies.

haven't people noticed that so many developers are going solo I/o going under an umbrella? the reason? it's possible to share high profit revenue, but it's not so possible to share competitive prices as much.

that will be an increasing trend toward that, and it's key that they somehow think on how they should proceed business wise. so lots of "Valhalla" business approach will pop out more and more. but that will make them compete against themselves and revenue will be lower. so, it's tough to compete in the free market haha.

what I think PA should be doing is mixing their different developers approach. I absolutely love Elysia stuff (I ended buying their presser 500 and character 500 and sold all elyria plugins). but for instance, PA could mix unfiltered audio controls with their elyria plugins. that would aggregate lots of value and revenue to them. it's a more creative approach to the revenue problem for instance. and the code is already ready.

and just to finish this awful long text that no one will read, even though u "own" something, it's not yours. it's just a license. it feels good to have money in ur wallet, but if u think about it in another point of view, you can also say "it's only paper". it's pretty awesome how the world goes around.

Cost wise and the amount of plugins u are getting, Slate's annual bundle doesn't have competition. which is kinda mind blowing hahahahah the best deal available to those entering the market and the pro. just do the math.

[Russell Grand]

Direct quote from Dirk / Pluginalliance,

You don’t “have to” buy using a PickPack. It’s just an option, and a very attractive offer. We will not stop selling plugins ‘the regular way’, and we won’t stop intro pricing and discounts.

That's the long and short of it. Buy them one at a time the old-fashioned way at regular price or do the rent-to-own plan. Everybody wins. Next!