need a good PCI card

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
User avatar
planetearth
KVRian
1404 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:42 pm

zoogoo wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Could it be youre getting pops and clicks because youre trying to run to many realtime audio processes?

It could be your PC setup.
A common issue is that Windows power management hasnt been set to 'performance', found under the Control Panel.

What are you able to run and at what point do you get pops and clicks?
I.e. tell us what Daw youre running and exactly what synths, effects, audio tracks and the quantity of each of those.
\
i have a completely other thread about this. ive done all of the above, power management and everything.
Its the audio process buffer when i run too much stuff.

I thought it was a new build issue, but i returned a perfectly good computer. Now im thinking its my old 12 year old soundcard. idk

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=500288
"Too much stuff" is relative. Unless we know what you consider to be "too much stuff" and what else your computer is running at the same time, there will be no way to determine if your system is optimized or if the problem really is with the audio interface.

My E-MU 0404 soundcard is just as old as your interface. I have not have a problem with it.

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

zoogoo
KVRist
435 posts since 21 Feb, 2006

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:35 pm

planetearth wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Could it be youre getting pops and clicks because youre trying to run to many realtime audio processes?

It could be your PC setup.
A common issue is that Windows power management hasnt been set to 'performance', found under the Control Panel.

What are you able to run and at what point do you get pops and clicks?
I.e. tell us what Daw youre running and exactly what synths, effects, audio tracks and the quantity of each of those.
@VariKusBrainZ is right: the pops and clicks are probably because of your PC configuration; that kind of problem is rarely from audio card drivers.

And PCI is a fairly old technology. PCIe is newer and faster, but there aren't a lot of audio interfaces left for PCIe, either.

All that said, I know you're having trouble with Ableton Live, and you've been asking for help with that in another thread. I also know that some people there suggested you get a new audio interface, but from what I've seen in that thread, the problem really isn't the audio interface. Your system/computer still isn't optimized, even though several people have asked to see what you have running and have offered suggestions on how to optimize the computer. Unless and until you know your system is optimized (which is free), spending money on an audio interface won't really help.

Steve
i keep hearing this again and again in these posts. and every time i ask i get no answer. ok the system is not optimized, so how do i do that?! what do you mean by that? because ive probabaly tried everything.been at this for weeks now.
be more specific i asked.
They have told me about the power settings and the cpu throttle, letencymon. all that ive done.
others mentioned the BIOS but i have yet to read or hear anything about that ether.
I Have been in the device manager and tried to stop any conflicting hardware. But still im kinda of fumbling around in the dark.

Ive used both windows 7 and 10, ive tried to figure this out on multiple computers and parts. I have 3 of these 1010LTs, so i figured it had to be the audio driver.
Ive used this same card even 10 years ago, and still i have not had a problem until i have ran more processing. More synths and effects, mapping, automation, lfo's and such. Since computers are faster.

someone else mentioned, PCI is not native to the board, not sure if thats why.

so now i need to troubleshoot another sound card, why i made this thread to see if anyone had suggestions of what i could try first.

thanks

zoogoo
KVRist
435 posts since 21 Feb, 2006

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:38 pm

i have been reading about

Asus Essence STX II

it says its made fore music production.

think will have better results then my m-audio 1010lt?

User avatar
planetearth
KVRian
1404 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:16 pm

zoogoo wrote:
planetearth wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Could it be youre getting pops and clicks because youre trying to run to many realtime audio processes?

It could be your PC setup.
A common issue is that Windows power management hasnt been set to 'performance', found under the Control Panel.

What are you able to run and at what point do you get pops and clicks?
I.e. tell us what Daw youre running and exactly what synths, effects, audio tracks and the quantity of each of those.
@VariKusBrainZ is right: the pops and clicks are probably because of your PC configuration; that kind of problem is rarely from audio card drivers.

And PCI is a fairly old technology. PCIe is newer and faster, but there aren't a lot of audio interfaces left for PCIe, either.

All that said, I know you're having trouble with Ableton Live, and you've been asking for help with that in another thread. I also know that some people there suggested you get a new audio interface, but from what I've seen in that thread, the problem really isn't the audio interface. Your system/computer still isn't optimized, even though several people have asked to see what you have running and have offered suggestions on how to optimize the computer. Unless and until you know your system is optimized (which is free), spending money on an audio interface won't really help.

Steve
i keep hearing this again and again in these posts. and every time i ask i get no answer. ok the system is not optimized, so how do i do that?! what do you mean by that? because ive probabaly tried everything.been at this for weeks now.
be more specific i asked.
They have told me about the power settings and the cpu throttle, letencymon. all that ive done.
others mentioned the BIOS but i have yet to read or hear anything about that ether.
I Have been in the device manager and tried to stop any conflicting hardware. But still im kinda of fumbling around in the dark.

Ive used both windows 7 and 10, ive tried to figure this out on multiple computers and parts. I have 3 of these 1010LTs, so i figured it had to be the audio driver.
Ive used this same card even 10 years ago, and still i have not had a problem until i have ran more processing. More synths and effects, mapping, automation, lfo's and such. Since computers are faster.

someone else mentioned, PCI is not native to the board, not sure if thats why.

so now i need to troubleshoot another sound card, why i made this thread to see if anyone had suggestions of what i could try first.

thanks
This can be frustrating. I understand. But we can help you, as long as we all stick to one thread. What we have so far is similar to the parable of 5 blind men trying to describe an elephant. :wink:

I just posted something on Gearslutz in answer to your post there. I'll re-post the relevant part of that here, for the sake of keeping everything in one thread.

"It would be very helpful if you listed (or took a screenshot of) how many processes you have running (and what they are), and how many apps are running on the system. For example, I only have 34 processes running on my DAW. How many do you have?

The latency monitor doesn't "optimize" anything; it's only a guide to show you what's causing latency issues on your system. Until the problem the latency monitor showed you is resolved, a new audio interface simply won't help.

I've helped a lot of people who've had problems with pops and clicks, and so far, only one issue was related to the audio interface drivers (and not the interface itself). And that person was running many (that is, over 40) plug-ins and effects in one specific project.

A "better" soundcard will not improve real-time processing. The processing is done by your CPU, and is limited to what Windows is doing while you're trying to process audio. Until we know what else Windows is trying to do, no one can vie you an answer that will help you."

Make sure you've done what's applicable/possible in these optimization guides first:

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/studio ... studio-one
(Don't uninstall what you're not going to use, but at least make sure it doesn't run on startup.)

https://bandzoogle.com/blog/20-ways-to- ... production

In your BIOS, simply make sure that your on-boar soundcard and Wi-Fi connector (if it's built in to the motherboard) are disabled. And if you have an external video card, turn off the motherboard's video card here, too. Also, disable any "turbo boost" settings your AMD chip may offer. Have it run at full speed the whole time.

Please optimize your system first. When you feel you've done what you can, give us a screenshot of what's running on your machine, so we can tell you what else you can turn off (if necessary).

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

User avatar
planetearth
KVRian
1404 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:19 pm

zoogoo wrote:i have been reading about

Asus Essence STX II

it says its made fore music production.

think will have better results then my m-audio 1010lt?
No. This is basically a sound "chip". It is not designed for real-time, multi-channel, uncompressed audio. It may be fine for gaming, but it is not a semi-pro (or really, even "consumer") audio interface.

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

chk071
KVRAF
17568 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:26 pm

Just wondering, but, is there any advantage of a PCI or PCIe interface over a USB interface?

User avatar
planetearth
KVRian
1404 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:47 pm

chk071 wrote:Just wondering, but, is there any advantage of a PCI or PCIe interface over a USB interface?
In general, PCIe has lower latency than USB. We're only talking a couple of milliseconds, but they tend to add up, depending upon what you're doing, and how your system is configured. Very efficient USB drivers can outperform poorly written PCIe drivers, but there are so many other variables at play on each individual system (CPU, chipset, software and services running, etc.), that it's difficult to get an accurate assessment of what would work best on any one system.

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

zoogoo
KVRist
435 posts since 21 Feb, 2006

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:48 pm

chk071 wrote:Just wondering, but, is there any advantage of a PCI or PCIe interface over a USB interface?
ive used the UsB in the past, ive always had latency issues. Unless the technology somehow changed in the last few years, ive always had issues with direct line audio processing. I only assumed a a card hardwired into my motherboard would be the best solution. unless you think otherwise?

not sure maybe external interfaces utilizes the USB 3.0? ive read nothing that says its any different then it was before.

User avatar
planetearth
KVRian
1404 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:00 pm

zoogoo wrote:
chk071 wrote:Just wondering, but, is there any advantage of a PCI or PCIe interface over a USB interface?
ive used the UsB in the past, ive always had latency issues. Unless the technology somehow changed in the last few years, ive always had issues with direct line audio processing. I only assumed a a card hardwired into my motherboard would be the best solution. unless you think otherwise?

not sure maybe external interfaces utilizes the USB 3.0? ive read nothing that says its any different then it was before.
Most audio interfaces do not support USB 3.0 yet. The higher-end ones (such as UAD) went with the "Thunderbolt" protocol/connector.

While USB 3.0 is technically considerably faster than USB 2.0, the latter is still sufficient for multi-channel audio. And I haven't seen anything that suggests USB 3.0 latency would be any better, since the USB 3.0 spec was not designed solely for real-time, multi-channel audio transfer.

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

zoogoo
KVRist
435 posts since 21 Feb, 2006

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:31 pm

planetearth wrote:
zoogoo wrote:
planetearth wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Could it be youre getting pops and clicks because youre trying to run to many realtime audio processes?

It could be your PC setup.
A common issue is that Windows power management hasnt been set to 'performance', found under the Control Panel.

What are you able to run and at what point do you get pops and clicks?
I.e. tell us what Daw youre running and exactly what synths, effects, audio tracks and the quantity of each of those.
@VariKusBrainZ is right: the pops and clicks are probably because of your PC configuration; that kind of problem is rarely from audio card drivers.

And PCI is a fairly old technology. PCIe is newer and faster, but there aren't a lot of audio interfaces left for PCIe, either.

All that said, I know you're having trouble with Ableton Live, and you've been asking for help with that in another thread. I also know that some people there suggested you get a new audio interface, but from what I've seen in that thread, the problem really isn't the audio interface. Your system/computer still isn't optimized, even though several people have asked to see what you have running and have offered suggestions on how to optimize the computer. Unless and until you know your system is optimized (which is free), spending money on an audio interface won't really help.

Steve
i keep hearing this again and again in these posts. and every time i ask i get no answer. ok the system is not optimized, so how do i do that?! what do you mean by that? because ive probabaly tried everything.been at this for weeks now.
be more specific i asked.
They have told me about the power settings and the cpu throttle, letencymon. all that ive done.
others mentioned the BIOS but i have yet to read or hear anything about that ether.
I Have been in the device manager and tried to stop any conflicting hardware. But still im kinda of fumbling around in the dark.

Ive used both windows 7 and 10, ive tried to figure this out on multiple computers and parts. I have 3 of these 1010LTs, so i figured it had to be the audio driver.
Ive used this same card even 10 years ago, and still i have not had a problem until i have ran more processing. More synths and effects, mapping, automation, lfo's and such. Since computers are faster.

someone else mentioned, PCI is not native to the board, not sure if thats why.

so now i need to troubleshoot another sound card, why i made this thread to see if anyone had suggestions of what i could try first.

thanks
This can be frustrating. I understand. But we can help you, as long as we all stick to one thread. What we have so far is similar to the parable of 5 blind men trying to describe an elephant. :wink:

I just posted something on Gearslutz in answer to your post there. I'll re-post the relevant part of that here, for the sake of keeping everything in one thread.

"It would be very helpful if you listed (or took a screenshot of) how many processes you have running (and what they are), and how many apps are running on the system. For example, I only have 34 processes running on my DAW. How many do you have?

The latency monitor doesn't "optimize" anything; it's only a guide to show you what's causing latency issues on your system. Until the problem the latency monitor showed you is resolved, a new audio interface simply won't help.

I've helped a lot of people who've had problems with pops and clicks, and so far, only one issue was related to the audio interface drivers (and not the interface itself). And that person was running many (that is, over 40) plug-ins and effects in one specific project.

A "better" soundcard will not improve real-time processing. The processing is done by your CPU, and is limited to what Windows is doing while you're trying to process audio. Until we know what else Windows is trying to do, no one can vie you an answer that will help you."

Make sure you've done what's applicable/possible in these optimization guides first:

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/studio ... studio-one
(Don't uninstall what you're not going to use, but at least make sure it doesn't run on startup.)

https://bandzoogle.com/blog/20-ways-to- ... production

In your BIOS, simply make sure that your on-boar soundcard and Wi-Fi connector (if it's built in to the motherboard) are disabled. And if you have an external video card, turn off the motherboard's video card here, too. Also, disable any "turbo boost" settings your AMD chip may offer. Have it run at full speed the whole time.

Please optimize your system first. When you feel you've done what you can, give us a screenshot of what's running on your machine, so we can tell you what else you can turn off (if necessary).

Steve
Thanks Steve i have done all the optimizing that was listed in those 2 links, as well as configured my BIOS to turn of audio driver. Im going to do some tests and get back to you with some screen shots if i have issues.

thank you very much!

zoogoo
KVRist
435 posts since 21 Feb, 2006

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:41 pm

planetearth wrote:
zoogoo wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Could it be youre getting pops and clicks because youre trying to run to many realtime audio processes?

It could be your PC setup.
A common issue is that Windows power management hasnt been set to 'performance', found under the Control Panel.

What are you able to run and at what point do you get pops and clicks?
I.e. tell us what Daw youre running and exactly what synths, effects, audio tracks and the quantity of each of those.
\
i have a completely other thread about this. ive done all of the above, power management and everything.
Its the audio process buffer when i run too much stuff.

I thought it was a new build issue, but i returned a perfectly good computer. Now im thinking its my old 12 year old soundcard. idk

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=500288
"Too much stuff" is relative. Unless we know what you consider to be "too much stuff" and what else your computer is running at the same time, there will be no way to determine if your system is optimized or if the problem really is with the audio interface.

My E-MU 0404 soundcard is just as old as your interface. I have not have a problem with it.

Steve
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

zoogoo
KVRist
435 posts since 21 Feb, 2006

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:52 pm

im not sure what i did in these two links,
but something fixed the problem. so far as i can tell.
gona test some more.

https://bandzoogle.com/blog/20-ways-to- ... production

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/studio ... studio-one

also i disabled the on board sound driver in BIOS.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

zoogoo
KVRist
435 posts since 21 Feb, 2006

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:23 am

Im still going to replace my m-audio pci with some other brand pcie

anything for around $300?

Zexila
KVRAF
3178 posts since 18 Mar, 2008

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:39 am

Last edited by Zexila on Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? :D ShawnG

User avatar
Guenon
KVRAF
1506 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Re: need a good PCI card

Post Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:39 am

planetearth wrote:A "better" soundcard will not improve real-time processing. The processing is done by your CPU, and is limited to what Windows is doing while you're trying to process audio.
All of this is an area that is often quite impermeable to newcomers, especially because of getting slightly different advice in different places :D ... so I'll just add to this particular bit. Thanks for taking the time to help, and you're clearly knowledgeable on the subject; this statement is one that is often repeated and easily leads to wrong conclusions, so to be certain:

A better soundcard can (and often will) improve realtime processing, if by realtime processing one means being able to run heavier projects at lower latencies. The audio interface isn't doing the actual plugin processing, but the interface and its drivers can bottleneck the realtime audio process so that the system can't use shorter buffer lengths (thus lower latency), either at all, or under higher loads. This leads to lower instance counts of plugins when working at a very low latency, in situations where the computer itself would still be able to process more. Effectively wasting a part of overall resources as a result.

The difference can be very marginal or quite substantial, depending on which interfaces are compared, and how their drivers hold up.

Return to “Computer Setup and System Configuration”