Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
himalaya
KVRAF
4856 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:27 pm

wagtunes wrote:But the CS-80? Utter garbage. I will never get what people heard in that synth.
I hear sonic bliss. The album below is an example of that. It's entirely made on the CS80 and features its amazing ring-modulator, which to this day remains unique and unrivalled in its sound and expression potential. Sure, there is some reverb there, but it's not the focus, its used in moderation (unlike Vangelis' other albums), the original sound is very much preserved.

This is not an easy listen, and you won't find beautiful melodies, heavenly harmonies , angelic chorales or ballsy basses and brass stabs here, but oh boy! That SOUND! It's unique to this day. Of course, it's the player who makes it 'sing', which comes back to the point above, that you need to know how to get the best from every synth by recognising its strengths, by spending time with it and learning it. Then again, who knows what your ears will tell you....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc6uG7jIJAE
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13916 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:36 pm

himalaya wrote:
wagtunes wrote:But the CS-80? Utter garbage. I will never get what people heard in that synth.
I hear sonic bliss. The album below is an example of that. It's entirely made on the CS80 and features its amazing ring-modulator, which to this day remains unique and unrivalled in its sound and expression potential. Sure, there is some reverb there, but it's not the focus, its used in moderation (unlike Vangelis' other albums), the original sound is very much preserved.

This is not an easy listen, and you won't find beautiful melodies, heavenly harmonies , angelic chorales or ballsy basses and brass stabs here, but oh boy! That SOUND! It's unique to this day. Of course, it's the player who makes it 'sing', which comes back to the point above, that you need to know how to get the best from every synth by recognising its strengths, by spending time with it and learning it. Then again, who knows what your ears will tell you....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc6uG7jIJAE
I'm actually going to listen to this when I get a chance. I don't need melodies to enjoy music as I'm very much into experimental stuff.

himalaya
KVRAF
4856 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:50 pm

wagtunes wrote:
justin3am wrote:
wagtunes wrote: But the CS-80? Utter garbage. I will never get what people heard in that synth.
Are you sure you didn't just have the HP filter cranked? :hihi:
Somehow people were able to make amazing music with that garbage. :dog:
I'm sure they didn't make this amazing music with a dry synth.
But somehow, I feel that any effects used, especially on older recordings with vintage synths, weren't used in order to mask any inherent "crap" quality of those synths. When you use several sounds in a track, effects may be very well needed in order to place the sounds in a virtual room, to create a soundstage, not to mask "crap" sounds. If you start with crap sounds then you are doing it wrong, effects are not the answer (although effects can be used to totally transfom a weak sound into something special, absolutely).

Here's an example of this idea (of choosing the right sound, rather than 'mask' a rubbish, unsuitable one with effects): Vangelis is on record stating that he never liked using the Minimoog since it was so overpowering, so huge sounding, that rather than use effects to fit it into a mix, he chose different synths, one of which is the aforementioned Korg Mini700, which has this very unique timbre which apparently Vangelis loved a lot as he had used that synth extensively.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

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braj
KVRAF
9090 posts since 5 Feb, 2004

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:17 pm

I just shake my head at anyone calling the cs80 "utter garbage."
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new

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jancivil
KVRAF
16090 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:53 pm

himalaya wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
justin3am wrote:
wagtunes wrote: But the CS-80? Utter garbage. I will never get what people heard in that synth.
Are you sure you didn't just have the HP filter cranked? :hihi:
Somehow people were able to make amazing music with that garbage. :dog:
I'm sure they didn't make this amazing music with a dry synth.
But somehow, I feel that any effects used, especially on older recordings with vintage synths, weren't used in order to mask any inherent "crap" quality of those synths. When you use several sounds in a track, effects may be very well needed in order to place the sounds in a virtual room, to create a soundstage, not to mask "crap" sounds. If you start with crap sounds then you are doing it wrong, effects are not the answer (although effects can be used to totally transfom a weak sound into something special, absolutely).

Here's an example of this idea (of choosing the right sound, rather than 'mask' a rubbish, unsuitable one with effects): Vangelis is on record stating that he never liked using the Minimoog since it was so overpowering, so huge sounding, that rather than use effects to fit it into a mix, he chose different synths, one of which is the aforementioned Korg Mini700, which has this very unique timbre which apparently Vangelis loved a lot as he had used that synth extensively.
This totally covers it. :tu:

I feel the same way about the Minimoog; as I said it'll stick out like a sore thumb, and the Monark does the same thing. Anything can be mitigated but why do it, just use the other thing(s).

felis
KVRist
388 posts since 25 Jul, 2009

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:16 pm

D-Fusion wrote: That was indeed very close but the JP8 has a little more Growl and fizz in the low and high register :)
The JP8v Sounded more muted in the high and low register like the filter or filter envelope is not 100% there.
Ya - I know. Not 100%, but way close enough for me.
I'm not quite as picky as a lot of the people on this forum. :D

And most of the Arturia stuff has extra features not found on the originals that make them unique in their
own right, and not just strictly copies.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14148 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:36 pm

himalaya wrote:
This is not an easy listen, and you won't find beautiful melodies, heavenly harmonies , angelic chorales or ballsy basses and brass stabs here, but oh boy! That SOUND! It's unique to this day. Of course, it's the player who makes it 'sing', which comes back to the point above, that you need to know how to get the best from every synth by recognising its strengths, by spending time with it and learning it. Then again, who knows what your ears will tell you....
Some gorgeous synth sounds there!! WOW!

Thanks for posting that... really shows what an amazing synth the CS80 is. So rich and organic... and even with a somewhat discordant and not melodic composition as this, it oozes a lovely musicality

Ah_Dziz
KVRAF
2353 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:47 pm

In reference to th OP,

I think they did well getting the workflow, architecture and, capabilities right, but I've never heard anything that would hold up to an AB comparison very well out of the non digital Arturia emulations. They are fun though and the full bundle can be gotten at a good price from time to time.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.

D-Fusion
KVRAF
3395 posts since 13 Jul, 2004 from Earth

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:21 pm

BassMasterK wrote:
D-Fusion wrote:
felis wrote:
rezoneight wrote:
fmr wrote:
And this sounds convincing too (so convincing that the author did this video, despite owning a real Jupiter-8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7atHf ... 3o7opRqu98
Look on his channel where the first video was the same song with his real JP-8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljS4z5roK44

Nailed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7atHf ... 3o7opRqu98
That was indeed very close but the JP8 has a little more Growl and fizz in the low and high register :)
The JP8v Sounded more muted in the high and low register like the filter or filter envelope is not 100% there.
I agree, I could really hear a difference particularly in the upper register. That being said, they are very close. Certainly close enough that one over the other would not make or break a song. Probably 95% of all of this music made with these emulations (if heard at all) ends up getting compressed to mp3 format and listened to by someone with tiny headphones through their cell phone. Good music is good music and it will shine through all of these compromises we make for the sake of convenience.
I agree :)
I do actually like the Arturia synths and even if they are not 100% spot on they are close enough for me :)

D-Fusion
KVRAF
3395 posts since 13 Jul, 2004 from Earth

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:34 pm

felis wrote:
D-Fusion wrote: That was indeed very close but the JP8 has a little more Growl and fizz in the low and high register :)
The JP8v Sounded more muted in the high and low register like the filter or filter envelope is not 100% there.
Ya - I know. Not 100%, but way close enough for me.
I'm not quite as picky as a lot of the people on this forum. :D

And most of the Arturia stuff has extra features not found on the originals that make them unique in their
own right, and not just strictly copies.
True :)
It is close enough for me too and i will always like the Arturia emulations :)
+ they don't eat our cpu for breakfast like the roland emulations do :)

zzz00m
KVRian
1391 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:36 am

felis wrote:
rezoneight wrote:
fmr wrote:
And this sounds convincing too (so convincing that the author did this video, despite owning a real Jupiter-8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7atHf ... 3o7opRqu98
Look on his channel where the first video was the same song with his real JP-8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljS4z5roK44

Nailed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7atHf ... 3o7opRqu98
These two sound very different to my ears. I like the original JP-8 much better! The emulation is close, but it just doesn't have 'that' sound.
Windows 10; with instruments from AIR, Ample Sound, AAS, Cakewalk, IK Multimedia, iZotope, KV331, NI, Seaweed Audio, SONiVOX, TAL, Tracktion, u-he, Way Out Ware, XLN, others...

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4434 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:00 am

There is a shedload more reverb on the hardware version of the recording. Which obviously is not part of the J8 sound.

felis
KVRist
388 posts since 25 Jul, 2009

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:44 pm

zzz00m wrote: These two sound very different to my ears. I like the original JP-8 much better! The emulation is close, but it just doesn't have 'that' sound.
Granted. And if you've got enough excess cash, getting 'that' sound might not pose a big problem.

When I said 'nailed it', I was thinking more along the lines of what 'normal' people would hear - not a bunch of nit-picky, synth geeky music gear forum members. :D
Last edited by felis on Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dasheesh
KVRAF
2767 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:09 pm

wagtunes wrote:Has anyone ever heard a CS-80 bone dry? I have, in person. It sounded like total crap. It was the thinnest sounding piece of garbage I'd ever heard in my life back in the 80s. I never understood people's fascination with the synth.
25 yrs. from now, no one is going to give a doo doo about blade runner2 soundtrack FYI. It sounds like doo doo.

zzz00m
KVRian
1391 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: Is Arturia really an accurate emulation of the synths the try to emulate?

Post Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:49 pm

Windows 10; with instruments from AIR, Ample Sound, AAS, Cakewalk, IK Multimedia, iZotope, KV331, NI, Seaweed Audio, SONiVOX, TAL, Tracktion, u-he, Way Out Ware, XLN, others...

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