Need help with Airwindows Console and groups/sub-busses

[DrMEM]

I am using Reaper but I doubt that matters.

I understand how to handle individual instrument tracks that go straight to the 2-buss - put each of them in their own folder with a copy of ConsoleChannel on the folder. Of course put a copy of ConsoleBuss as the first fx on the 2-buss. This gives full flexibility with the faders on the individual tracks. Easy.

I also understand how to handle send tracks that receive any number of instrument tracks (e.g., reverb send, delay send, etc) - route the instrument tracks themselves (not the folders they are in that contain the ConsoleChannel instances) to the send track, and then have an instance of ConsoleChannel at the end of the send track's fx. This way the pre-ConsoleChannel signal gets processed by the send, and that gets sent into Console.

What I can't seem to figure out is the proper way to use Console with groups (i.e., sub-busses) to get the maximum amount of glue. Say I want to send all of my guitars to a buss so I can apply some compression to them as a group. Suppose the guitar buss then feeds into the master buss. Where should the Console instances be now? Certainly I want ConsoleChannel first applied to the individual guitar tracks. If I don't have any Console instances on the guitar buss then I'm compressing the guitars within Console, which might be undesirable...? Maybe? I don't know. I definitely don't want to put an instance of ConsoleChannel at the end of the buss's fx chain, as then the guitar sounds would then be sent into Console twice. I tried putting an instance of ConsoleBuss at the beginning of the buss's fx chain, and then an instance of ConsoleChannel at the end of it (to feed a Console'ized signal to the 2-buss), but then I lose a lot of the magic of Console when I have several sub-busses. For instance, 4 sub-busses each with 4 instruments getting the console treatment, and that being fed into the 2-buss getting the console treatment, sounds different from all 16 instruments going directly into the 2-buss getting the console treatment together.

Thoughts?

[imrae]

Depends what processing you are applying to the group. If you are just applying linear (i.e. EQ and stereo width) and time-based (i.e. reverb and delay) effects then don't put any console stuff on that group buss. If you are applying nonlinear stuff like compression and distortion, you probably should do the decode->process->re-encode on that group. Think of it as group compression/saturation "gluing" those tracks together into a single block before it hits the mix buss and interacts with other tracks. Sometimes you want that, sometimes not; it's a choice you make.

[Bouroki]

I definitely don't want to put an instance of ConsoleChannel at the end of the buss's fx chain, as then the guitar sounds would then be sent into Console twice.

Well that's what would happen in a real console as well - the guitar tracks will hit the summing amplifier of the submix which in turn will send it to the summing amp of the master bus. So they will be getting twice the "treatment".

Honestly I just gave up on the console thing exactly because of these workflow headaches. Sound-wise it definitely has a noticeable holographic effect on the mix but that will not suit every genre, and you have to be sure it is actually benefiting your style of music. (For instance, I didn't really like this holographic effect on rock/metal).

[Winstontaneous]

One thing I find confusing in the discussions of Console is that Chris says "Console's different and its main deal is that it wants unity gain between ConsoleChannel and ConsoleBuss".

I understand the concept of unity gain in analog/hardware land, but here does this mean that:
- you're targeting some level on the master (0 dB? -18 db)...not sure I've seen one specified.
- you don't want to adjust gain after the ConsoleChannel plugin regardless of the per-channel output level (meaning ConsoleChannel is sending that channel to ConsoleBuss at the level you want it in the mix)
- something else?

[MogwaiBoy]

The -18db thing is averages right, not max peak? -6 to -10db peak is the healthy spot?

[DrMEM]

"- you don't want to adjust gain after the ConsoleChannel plugin regardless of the per-channel output level (meaning ConsoleChannel is sending that channel to ConsoleBuss at the level you want it in the mix)"

That's what it means and what you want.

"The -18db thing is averages right, not max peak? -6 to -10db peak is the healthy spot?"

Not sure. I'm pretty sure Chris has said that the harder you hit it the more of an effect it has, and you should decide with your own ears what you prefer.

[Bouroki]

- you don't want to adjust gain after the ConsoleChannel plugin regardless of the per-channel output level (meaning ConsoleChannel is sending that channel to ConsoleBuss at the level you want it in the mix

Yes. It should also be post-pan too (an often overlooked point). If you have a pan law of say 3db and you change the panning post-ConsoleChannel then it will hit the ConsoleBuss 3db too hot and will throw off the calibration.

Regarding levels, Chris tends to avoid discussing optimal levels simply because many of his plugins, Console included, do not care that much about levels. They are often smooth continuous Sin curves that will affect the signal the same way regardless of level and with lots of headroom. That said he does mention about Console specifically that he tends to like to hit the master bus with something like +3dbfs and use a safety clipper after ConsoleBuss like ADClip or ClipOnly.

[Winstontaneous]

Thanks y'all, makes more sense now.

[macmuse]

From what I remember, I thought he said to leave the faders alone and mix levels using Console instead of the faders. (Or I suppose you could use the clip’s gain handles, as I sometimes do anyway in my mixes).

Or maybe that was Desk he was talking about...I just remember this about the faders.