New TC 2290 plugin and hardware controller...

[ghettosynth]

rather than reaching for the mouse and clicking fiddly icons

So the UI on screen is terrible then ?
Or are you suggesting that anybody actually posting on a forum for audio software is struggling with using software because of "fiddly icons"

No, it's much the same as any other, but reaching for a mouse to re-locate and change a parameter is not as easy as being able to simply tap a key on the desk in front of you, especially if you are playing an instrument.

Nonsense. When I'm mixing one hand is almost always on the mouse so there's no "reaching" involved. As I said, this is not a performance controller, it's really just a specialized keyboard so it's only marginally easier, and then not always so, then using a mouse and keyboard with a well designed plugin U/I.

Moreover, the constraints that were necessary on the original hardware were not their because they yield an ideal interface, rather, they are there because it was what could be done practically. When designing a modern U/I you have much more flexibility and there are no real cost concerns about adding more complex control inputs. In short, I don't see the appeal of an 80s style digital hardware interface. They were clunky then and they are clunky now.

As far as cost. That controller is worth about $100. The most I've payed for any delay is $50 which was for Echoboy. I can't see paying more than that, especially for something less flexible. The price should be $129 to $169 for the package.

[Gadget13769]

rather than reaching for the mouse and clicking fiddly icons

So the UI on screen is terrible then ?
Or are you suggesting that anybody actually posting on a forum for audio software is struggling with using software because of "fiddly icons"

No, it's much the same as any other, but reaching for a mouse to re-locate and change a parameter is not as easy as being able to simply tap a key on the desk in front of you, especially if you are playing an instrument.

Nonsense. When I'm mixing one hand is almost always on the mouse so there's no "reaching" involved. As I said, this is not a performance controller, it's really just a specialized keyboard so it's only marginally easier, and then not always so, then using a mouse and keyboard with a well designed plugin U/I.

Moreover, the constraints that were necessary on the original hardware were not their because they yield an ideal interface, rather, they are there because it was what could be done practically. When designing a modern U/I you have much more flexibility and there are no real cost concerns about adding more complex control inputs. In short, I don't see the appeal of an 80s style digital hardware interface. They were clunky then and they are clunky now.

As far as cost. That controller is worth about $100. The most I've payed for any delay is $50 which was for Echoboy. I can't see paying more than that, especially for something less flexible. The price should be $129 to $169 for the package.

Nonsense? Horses for courses. I'm not mixing at the mo. I'm sat here tracking with my guitar, using both hands, and it's a lot easier to press a button in front of me on the desk.

[DrGonzo]

Extremely cool. Only problem I see if more developers are starting to make dedicated controllers - my desk - heck, ANY desk will be too small...
/C

[ghettosynth]

rather than reaching for the mouse and clicking fiddly icons

So the UI on screen is terrible then ?
Or are you suggesting that anybody actually posting on a forum for audio software is struggling with using software because of "fiddly icons"

No, it's much the same as any other, but reaching for a mouse to re-locate and change a parameter is not as easy as being able to simply tap a key on the desk in front of you, especially if you are playing an instrument.

Nonsense. When I'm mixing one hand is almost always on the mouse so there's no "reaching" involved. As I said, this is not a performance controller, it's really just a specialized keyboard so it's only marginally easier, and then not always so, then using a mouse and keyboard with a well designed plugin U/I.

Moreover, the constraints that were necessary on the original hardware were not their because they yield an ideal interface, rather, they are there because it was what could be done practically. When designing a modern U/I you have much more flexibility and there are no real cost concerns about adding more complex control inputs. In short, I don't see the appeal of an 80s style digital hardware interface. They were clunky then and they are clunky now.

As far as cost. That controller is worth about $100. The most I've payed for any delay is $50 which was for Echoboy. I can't see paying more than that, especially for something less flexible. The price should be $129 to $169 for the package.

Nonsense? Horses for courses. I'm not mixing at the mo. I'm sat here tracking with my guitar, using both hands, and it's a lot easier to press a button in front of me on the desk.

You said "especially if you're playing an instrument", i.e., the implication there is that it's still easier if you're not playing an instrument, and I claim that's nonsense. Moreover, if you are playing an instrument, it's easier to just turn a knob until it sounds right, not type in a delay amount. I play and record guitar also, I don't see that this is much more than an attempt to leverage gas for vintage devices. As I said, it's not a good interface for a delay. It was only good in the 80s where engineers do need to type in delay amounts but aren't doing it on a computer. Today you just double click on the control and use your keyboard to type in a delay amount.

[metalifuxx]

The main point is that you NEED the controller to be able to tweak and edit the plugin. The plugin GUI does not have all the parameter controls to access, you have to have the controller to edit. They say it still functions and works but you cannot edit the all delays parameters in-depth. Unless I misunderstood and they didn't show an expanded plugin view. And yeah, even if I did want it (with controller too), I don't have space on my desk either. Right now I barely have enough space to move a mouse around and have a QWERTY keyboard for typing, and that's still not in an ergonomic comfortable location.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

The main point is that you NEED the controller to be able to tweak and edit the plugin. The plugin GUI does not have all the parameter controls to access, you have to have the controller to edit.

If true, that's completely asinine. I could understand not being able to fit every parameter on the controller and rounding out the control set via the plugin, but to do the opposite would make no sense.

Has this been confirmed?

[rasmusklump]

Yes, AND it has to be plugged in every two weeks, or the plugins doesn't even read pre-recorded automation data anymore....

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yes, AND it has to be plugged in every two weeks, or the plugins doesn't even read pre-recorded automation data anymore....

Well, that's a complete dealbreaker.

Is Eventide the only of the larger hardware effect companies that gets the plugin industry? Off the top of my head, they seem to be the only one that releases new plugins on a regular basis, and doesn't do anything particular onerous to cripple their plugins or otherwise push their hardware. Sure, they're still holding some algorithms back for their top-of-the-line hardware effect boxes, but Eventide seems light years ahead of their counterparts when it comes to the plugin space.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Yes, AND it has to be plugged in every two weeks, or the plugins doesn't even read pre-recorded automation data anymore....

I just read the manual and can corroborate this crazyness

If the hardware unit is disconnected, automation and preset recall will still be
available for 2 weeks, after which the plug-in goes into demo mode.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I don't understand the idea that the price is too high. When i first saw it, I imagined it selling at $500...minimum

it's a small midi controller and a plugin... how much could it be?

I don't think it quite works that way. When it comes to pricing, the company doesn't sit down and say "Well, it's only a few thousand lines of code and a box with some pcb's and flashing lights. Let's push 'em out for a hundred quid"

They, like me, are weighing up various factors: The history of a lauded delay unit, tcelectronic's reputation, and the unique hybrid 1-to-1 nature of the controller. I imagined $500, and working backwards from that to it's real price, I feel it's pretty well-placed. Of course, the guy who imagines building the controller box in his shed will have other ideas

Either way, I won't be buying it

[Scotty]

I am very interested in this plugin hardware combo BUT not having full independence from the controller is dumb. They should have another option of software authentication when separated from it. I may like the controller... but I don't wish to be married to it.

[subterfuge]

Wow, the classic rack delay is back. This is the delay I wanted so bad back in the 80s-90s. One of the longest delays available back then. And of course that great ducking feature, along with the chorus/flange, looping, panning etc. You could also connect 5 other FX to it and control/save their switching with the presets. Probably most of the big stars hauling around their refrigerator sized racks had at least one of these in there. But us mere mortals with absolutely no way to spend over $2000 for an effect (near $4000 in current money), could only dream about it. Pretty much the same deal as with the Eventide H3000, also a common sight in those fx racks back then.

So Eventide got their classic into software just before TC Electronic did. Funnily enough, both with similar prices too, but TC Electronic has the hardware controller included. Unfortunately, now that I could at least in theory afford both, I want neither of them. At least upon the initial release, H3000 seemed to miss many of the features the original had. So not quite there yet, or is it? TC2290 on the other hand seems to have most of the stuff ported into software, but the hardware controller limits the free use solely within the DAW. While I understand the need for the dongle and actually welcome the added hands-on control, it naturally doesn't offer all the control and connection options the original hardware unit had.

I still use hw and have free rack space, so I'd get the original in a heartbeat. If only they wouldn't cost so much even on the used market. And that I really wouldn't need them that much anymore. Would love to test one of these anyway, someday.

[jens]

Is Eventide the only of the larger hardware effect companies that gets the plugin industry?

I'm pretty sure Uli knows exactly what he is doing.

[robotmonkey]

This is next level retarded if the controller is meant as a copy protection measure.

I just see no value in such a combo, especially if the controller does not have a processing engine inside. This controller does not even see useful for anything else even if it worked as a generic midi controller.

There's just so many fantastic delays around that it's so easy to pass TC 2290 then.

[Dullee]

I'm pretty sure Uli knows exactly what he is doing.

If Behringer knew what they are doing, they would stop doing it.