I’m not sure about preset morphing...how would it work? Imagining that all the knobs would change smoothly from their current position to the position in the target preset.
But if so it would be unpredictable because you are turning knobs not for a specific sound but to reach a preset position. And the target patch will not sound correct until the morphing is done. So no guarantee it would sound good or even be usable.
But this is a simplistic example. Zebra is modular so it’s more than turning knobs to morph between presets. Oscillators and effects and modulators can be on or off also depending on the preset. So if this were to become more of a sample-based capability (maybe that’s what Howard is referring to as a “snapshot?”) then I might rather just layer it in my DAW.
Not closed to the idea but I need some help seeing it.
Zebra3 Info
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- KVRist
- 329 posts since 13 Nov, 2013 from Charlotte, North Carolina
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- KVRAF
- 4803 posts since 21 Jan, 2008 from oO
Any news about the physical modelling experiments maybe? Will they find a place in Z3?
JamWide - a cross-platform Ninjam client for DAWs
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- u-he
- Topic Starter
- 30180 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
It can't really... this is why Zebra originally got the XY controls. To do preset-morphing-like stuff. We will expand on that by some nifty ideas to make this easier and more versatile.clangorous wrote:I’m not sure about preset morphing...how would it work?
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- u-he
- Topic Starter
- 30180 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
No big news on these, but as everything is connected with everything, Colour Copy contains a building block of what we're going to use, such that the developer who claimed responsibility for CoCo will put his experience into the new comb filter designs..maki wrote:Any news about the physical modelling experiments maybe? Will they find a place in Z3?
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- KVRist
- 206 posts since 23 Apr, 2006
Any more GUI concepts to tease..? I'd love to see a little more visual feedback in terms of modulation sources/amounts.
Particularly stuff like: Mapping wavetable position to modwheel/env 1 etc - it would be really useful to be able to see the modulation amount in realtime on the knob & on the OSC1 tab.
If we can click and drag the Wave knob and see/hear the wavetable position changing, shouldn't changing the wavetable position with a modulation source work the other way and show the knob & wavetable moving to the position they're being modulated to?
Skip to 4:30 for the first clear example
Lots of synths do this effectively, some in a nice, subtle way. Alchemy is a good example:
Particularly stuff like: Mapping wavetable position to modwheel/env 1 etc - it would be really useful to be able to see the modulation amount in realtime on the knob & on the OSC1 tab.
If we can click and drag the Wave knob and see/hear the wavetable position changing, shouldn't changing the wavetable position with a modulation source work the other way and show the knob & wavetable moving to the position they're being modulated to?
Skip to 4:30 for the first clear example
Lots of synths do this effectively, some in a nice, subtle way. Alchemy is a good example:
Last edited by wilx on Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 206 posts since 23 Apr, 2006
how do i delete a post?
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- u-he
- Topic Starter
- 30180 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
there's usually an [x] on the top right of a post. But maybe only for moderators.wilx wrote:how do i delete a post?
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- KVRAF
- 24406 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Yeah that's only for mods on this forum.
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- KVRist
- 206 posts since 23 Apr, 2006
Ah, thanks! I'll pay more attention to the difference between edit and quote in future...
In the meantime, I knocked together a video explaining my thoughts about the modulation visualisation in Zebra. I want to stress that I completely understand people have different preferences when it comes to this area, but many synths do this in an effective and subtle way & for my particular workflow (and horrendous film/tv deadlines) it would be wonderful to have a little bit more visual feedback when Zebra 3 comes along. I've seen a fair amount of people in the forum saying similar.
- 'suggestion 2' here works better, I think.
- again, I don't think we need 3d graphics and flashing lights everywhere, just something relatively subtle that gives enough feedback to show that 'parameter x' is being modulated. It would save an enormous amount of time for me. Especially since I use Zebra on every single project!
In the meantime, I knocked together a video explaining my thoughts about the modulation visualisation in Zebra. I want to stress that I completely understand people have different preferences when it comes to this area, but many synths do this in an effective and subtle way & for my particular workflow (and horrendous film/tv deadlines) it would be wonderful to have a little bit more visual feedback when Zebra 3 comes along. I've seen a fair amount of people in the forum saying similar.
- 'suggestion 2' here works better, I think.
- again, I don't think we need 3d graphics and flashing lights everywhere, just something relatively subtle that gives enough feedback to show that 'parameter x' is being modulated. It would save an enormous amount of time for me. Especially since I use Zebra on every single project!
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- KVRAF
- 4196 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany
My 2c: I prefer spending CPU power on audio quality instead of animation, however pleasing such eye candy could be.wilx wrote:I'd love to see a little more visual feedback in terms of modulation sources/amounts.
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- KVRist
- 206 posts since 23 Apr, 2006
I completely understand, but stress that this isn't about being pleasing/fancy/pretty - it's purely from a utilitarian point of view, for being able to quickly check what's happing in a patch.Howard wrote:My 2c: I prefer spending CPU power on audio quality instead of animation, however pleasing such eye candy could be.wilx wrote:I'd love to see a little more visual feedback in terms of modulation sources/amounts.
More visual feedback - even super-subtle stuff - will help people get to where they need to be quicker.
In the example above, it seems counterintuitive to me that the wave warp position is changing, but there's no visual indicator of it. If (via modulation) I've scanned to the right-most slot in the wave warp, wouldn't it make sense that the wave warp knob and osc1 tab reflect this? Otherwise I'm hearing the OSC at position 16 but all the visual feedback is telling me it's at position 1. Cognitive dissonance.
I am digging deeper into Zebra at the mo as I have a bit of downtime, but I just wanted to point out that some sort of visual feedback when it comes to modulation would be very helpful.
As I've said, I know people will have different opinions on this - but I'd urge you to consider that not everyone has the staggering wealth of knowledge that you and Urs do when it comes to synthesis (I am trying, though
), and a little visual feedback could make Zebra 3 a bit more usable for those of us with less comprehensive knowledge and scary deadlines...-
- KVRian
- 886 posts since 14 May, 2014
I second this. Seeing the tone visually travel the envelope in Serum and being able to click and manipulate it directly instead of turning parameters is vastly more intuitive to understand. I don't think their suggestion is about flashiness for the sake of flashiness (which seems more in-line with Hive), but about practicality in the sort of subtle/methodical Zebra kind of way.wilx wrote:I completely understand, but stress that this isn't about being pleasing/fancy/pretty - it's purely from a utilitarian point of view, for being able to quickly check what's happing in a patch.Howard wrote:My 2c: I prefer spending CPU power on audio quality instead of animation, however pleasing such eye candy could be.wilx wrote:I'd love to see a little more visual feedback in terms of modulation sources/amounts.
More visual feedback - even super-subtle stuff - will help people get to where they need to be quicker.
In the example above, it seems counterintuitive to me that the wave warp position is changing, but there's no visual indicator of it. If (via modulation) I've scanned to the right-most slot in the wave warp, wouldn't it make sense that the wave warp knob and osc1 tab reflect this? Otherwise I'm hearing the OSC at position 16 but all the visual feedback is telling me it's at position 1. Cognitive dissonance.
I am digging deeper into Zebra at the mo as I have a bit of downtime, but I just wanted to point out that some sort of visual feedback when it comes to modulation would be very helpful.
As I've said, I know people will have different opinions on this - but I'd urge you to consider that not everyone has the staggering wealth of knowledge that you and Urs do when it comes to synthesis (I am trying, though
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- KVRist
- 354 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from Melbourne Australia
It doesn't really make a difference if its for flashiness or practicality.
(don't get me wrong I like the idea, I've even asked for it in the past)
but having tried to add this kind of visible modulation to a reaktor ensemble recently, I can understand the temptation to leave that processing power for other things!
(don't get me wrong I like the idea, I've even asked for it in the past)
but having tried to add this kind of visible modulation to a reaktor ensemble recently, I can understand the temptation to leave that processing power for other things!
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- KVRist
- 206 posts since 23 Apr, 2006
Isn't Blocks quite well-equiped in this area?Terrafractyl wrote:It doesn't really make a difference if its for flashiness or practicality.
(don't get me wrong I like the idea, I've even asked for it in the past)
but having tried to add this kind of visible modulation to a reaktor ensemble recently, I can understand the temptation to leave that processing power for other things!
The most basic thing for me is stuff like the example I gave, where we hear osc1 at position 16 and see it (and the knob that represents it) at position 1.
That's not efficient at all, it's just confusing.
Serum is serum, and I love using it and the visual cues (envelopes, even tooltips for every control!) make it a very intuitive synth to program. But I don't think anyone wants zebra to move in that direction. Zebra is so much more capable than most synths, it would be impossible to implement visual feedback in the same way. But all I'm hoping for is a few common-sense, well designed bits of visual feedback to make programming more efficient and intuitive. Not just 'more pretty.'
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- KVRAF
- 4196 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany
wilx wrote:Zebra is so much more capable than most synths, it would be impossible to implement visual feedback in the same way. But all I'm hoping for is a few common-sense, well designed bits of visual feedback to make programming more efficient and intuitive.
BTW for me, the ideal modulation matrix would look very similar to a file browser. Thoughts?