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BMoore wrote:Probably a PayPal fee, and not the exchange rate.
Turns out it's both, genius.
slow :clap:

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DrMEM wrote:
chk071 wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Michael L wrote:Paypal has fees for currency conversion and many other things:
https://www.paypal.com/vn/webapps/mpp/u ... #exhibit_A
:dog:
Well you know what? That's just f**king criminal.
No, it's not. Every bank or payment service has similar conditions. You don't expect people there to work for free, do you?
My capital one credit card has no foreign transaction fee.
Well, that's great for you. You surely pay some kind of fee for it though, don't you?

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jancivil wrote:
BMoore wrote:Probably a PayPal fee, and not the exchange rate.
Turns out it's both, genius.
slow :clap:
Yeah, if I had known (my fault for not doing more research on foreign transactions) I would have paid via CC.

However, and this I researched, when you pay via CC, the exchange rate you get charged is the rate when the CC itself is charged, which is not always right away. With some banks, I have found, it could be as long as 3 days. That gives the exchange rate 3 days to go up or down. Naturally, this could help or hurt me but it's more uncertainty as far as what you end up paying.

Anyway, I'm working on learning this interface (I'm finding it much easier and more intuitive than Play) and working on my orchestration techniques to try to improve them. My thanks to Guy for giving me the kick in the pants I needed for that.

If I ever come here and say I'm bored, you have my permission to tell me that I have no excuses for boredom. Right now my only complaint is I wish there were more hours in the day.

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In re-upping my lost licenses, I noticed that the transaction, via PayPal was more than I just saw in numerous posts via Google regarding the exchange rate. Every time I checked it was. I didn't arse Paul @VSL with it as he was giving me every kind of break and responding very promptly when I'd email telling him which ones to do. So I didn't know it was a fee.

But normally the expense is significantly higher than this when I buy VSL, and I don't use PayPal as it's just as easy to use my checking card with the one-step encryption entering a password (which VSL helpfully adds to the transaction). It is also a good guard against fraud.

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jancivil wrote:
BMoore wrote:Probably a PayPal fee, and not the exchange rate.
Turns out it's both, genius.
slow :clap:
You know there's a difference between the exchange rate itself, as badtunes thought, and an exchange rate fee, right?
Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a function | http://soundcloud.com/bmoorebeats

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chk071 wrote:
DrMEM wrote:
chk071 wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Michael L wrote:Paypal has fees for currency conversion and many other things:
https://www.paypal.com/vn/webapps/mpp/u ... #exhibit_A
:dog:
Well you know what? That's just f**king criminal.
No, it's not. Every bank or payment service has similar conditions. You don't expect people there to work for free, do you?
My capital one credit card has no foreign transaction fee.
Well, that's great for you. You surely pay some kind of fee for it though, don't you?
No, it's a rewards card with no annual fee, so they pay me.

(I guess I pay for it through the generally higher prices that result from credit cards existing, but I'd be paying those prices regardless, so...)

Honestly I cannot remember the last time I outright paid for a banking service.

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BMoore wrote:
jancivil wrote:
BMoore wrote:Probably a PayPal fee, and not the exchange rate.
Turns out it's both, genius.
slow :clap:
You know there's a difference between the exchange rate itself, as badtunes thought, and an exchange rate fee, right?
You know that the issue of the amount of money he didn't expect to pay was a product of both, you being the one who went there, right? I mean that is the 'it' in my sentence, clearly. This is what you think makes you smarter than people, was the actual thing I wanted to convey here. It's really f**king bleak, buddy.

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DrMEM wrote:
chk071 wrote:
DrMEM wrote:
chk071 wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Michael L wrote:Paypal has fees for currency conversion and many other things:
https://www.paypal.com/vn/webapps/mpp/u ... #exhibit_A
:dog:
Well you know what? That's just f**king criminal.
No, it's not. Every bank or payment service has similar conditions. You don't expect people there to work for free, do you?
:dog:

A bank is making money by being a f**king bank. I personally pay nothing for checking, which is how I buy VSL except for the one thing.
Peter Thiel has his hand in our pockets for giving us basically nothing, it's just bottom feeding. The money I have come in via fundraising, I am not set up to do via a website that takes credit or checking cards. So a guy doing this is the worst kind of taking advantage, of the people who can afford it least, which is becoming more and more of us as the playing field becomes less and less level. And you, clueless, defend and normalize such a practice. Or maybe you're just gaslighting us for kicks.

If I really get it together to raise regular funds, which is more feasible than selling music weirdly enough, I will set up something to avoid this middle man. It is a middle man; unlike my no-cost checking account. Even though I don't mean much to my bank with 5 dollars in savings, they still make money off of being a bank, you know, investing other people's money. Maybe in the weird authoritarian rules universe you live in there are no credit unions or banks that aren't ripoffs. :shrug:

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DrMEM wrote:
chk071 wrote:
DrMEM wrote:
chk071 wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Michael L wrote:Paypal has fees for currency conversion and many other things:
https://www.paypal.com/vn/webapps/mpp/u ... #exhibit_A
:dog:
Well you know what? That's just f**king criminal.
No, it's not. Every bank or payment service has similar conditions. You don't expect people there to work for free, do you?
My capital one credit card has no foreign transaction fee.
Well, that's great for you. You surely pay some kind of fee for it though, don't you?
No, it's a rewards card with no annual fee, so they pay me.

(I guess I pay for it through the generally higher prices that result from credit cards existing, but I'd be paying those prices regardless, so...)

Honestly I cannot remember the last time I outright paid for a banking service.
You definitely pay somewhere. I pay an annual fee for my bank account (i think about 16 to 17 €), and then, they have fees for bank transfers, online banking, cash transactions, and what not. I'm afraid the "free banking service" is an illusion. It's also not because they're "a***holes who are only after my money". I don't think anyone likes to work for free here, neither do them.

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jancivil wrote: A bank is making money by being a f**king bank.
You mean by working with your, and others money. Yes, that's correct. At least partly (and apart from that, you also benefit from that, otherwise the fees would be even higher). They still need money to run the accounts and stuff. Especially when you take a look at how much money people hoard on their accounts. You may have noticed that interests have been getting lower and lower, also for investments.

Anyway, i doubt that that's a topic which can be discussed outside of HPC, because, yo, they're all teevs and stuff.

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jancivil wrote:
BMoore wrote:
jancivil wrote:
BMoore wrote:Probably a PayPal fee, and not the exchange rate.
Turns out it's both, genius.
slow :clap:
You know there's a difference between the exchange rate itself, as badtunes thought, and an exchange rate fee, right?
You know that the issue of the amount of money he didn't expect to pay was a product of both, you being the one who went there, right? I mean that is the 'it' in my sentence, clearly. This is what you think makes you smarter than people, was the actual thing I wanted to convey here. It's really f**king bleak, buddy.
What's bleak, is that you don't understand the difference here.
Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a function | http://soundcloud.com/bmoorebeats

Post

BMoore wrote:
jancivil wrote:
BMoore wrote:
jancivil wrote:
BMoore wrote:Probably a PayPal fee, and not the exchange rate.
Turns out it's both, genius.
slow :clap:
You know there's a difference between the exchange rate itself, as badtunes thought, and an exchange rate fee, right?
You know that the issue of the amount of money he didn't expect to pay was a product of both, you being the one who went there, right? I mean that is the 'it' in my sentence, clearly. This is what you think makes you smarter than people, was the actual thing I wanted to convey here. It's really f**king bleak, buddy.
What's bleak, is that you don't understand the difference here.
There are exchange rate fees, and there are exchange rates. And there are different issues.

1. The fee is something the bank charges for an exchange operation (an operation where the bank sells foreign currency to its customer to pay someone, or buys foreign currency from its customer, to transform it in its country currency). This varies from bank to bank (and Paypal here is working as a bank). Paypal is not the worst (I know, I had one really bad experience with Bank of America), but not the best either.

2. Another thing is the exchange rate itself. There is one exchange rate published, but people often ignore that, when the bank sells foreign currency to its customer, it doesn't sell it at the same price it buys from other banks (or simply draws for its own accounts in foreign currency). Therefore, there is a price to SELL foreign currency to the customer and another price to BUY foreign currency from the customer (when, for example, the customer receives money in a foreign currency and wants that exchanged into its own country currency).

3. In other words, if we (europeans) receive dollars and want euros, the exchange rate is read by the bank in the BUY column (because the bank is buyiong dollars from us). If we want to make a payment in dollars, the bank will read the price in the SELL column (because the bank is selling dollars to us.

4. Of course, when the bank buys dollars, it buys them cheaper than when it sells - therefoe, there are actually TWO exchange rates - one to buy and another to sell. AND it will always charge the fee over the amount of the operation. AND there will be taxes (at least over here) that we have to pay over ihe amount of the operation.

This is the wonderful world of the FREE trade. :hihi:
Fernando (FMR)

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chk071 wrote: You definitely pay somewhere. I pay an annual fee for my bank account (i think about 16 to 17 €), and then, they have fees for bank transfers, online banking, cash transactions, and what not. I'm afraid the "free banking service" is an illusion.
Maybe where you live, but I can guarantee that the bank accounts and CC's that I use don't get a dime in fees, interest, etc from me. Really. If a bank charges me a fee for an account, I take my money elsewhere. If it charges for online banking, I take my money elsewhere. Like jancivil, my CC card is free and they pay me money in rewards.

I let them make money off other people.

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jsp1979 wrote: Maybe where you live, but I can guarantee that the bank accounts and CC's that I use don't get a dime in fees, interest, etc from me. Really. If a bank charges me a fee for an account, I take my money elsewhere. If it charges for online banking, I take my money elsewhere. Like jancivil, my CC card is free and they pay me money in rewards.
Just out of curiosity, where do you live? I want a bank and a CC like that.
Fernando (FMR)

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jsp1979 wrote:
chk071 wrote: You definitely pay somewhere. I pay an annual fee for my bank account (i think about 16 to 17 €), and then, they have fees for bank transfers, online banking, cash transactions, and what not. I'm afraid the "free banking service" is an illusion.
Maybe where you live, but I can guarantee that the bank accounts and CC's that I use don't get a dime in fees, interest, etc from me. Really. If a bank charges me a fee for an account, I take my money elsewhere. If it charges for online banking, I take my money elsewhere. Like jancivil, my CC card is free and they pay me money in rewards.

I let them make money off other people.
Lol... except that they work with YOUR money. And remember you read the fine print. You WILL pay something for your bank account or CC. Don't fool yourself. I don't know what you do as a dayjob, but, you don't work for nada either, do you?

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