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enroe
KVRian
 
772 posts since 18 Mar, 2008, from germany

Postby enroe; Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:00 am Re: EDM structure

sleepcircle wrote:music music music MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC MUSMUSMUSMUSMUSMUSMUSIC
DROP
hook: bow bippa-BOW DOW DOWWWWUB wubbawubbawubbawubba (and so on)
mus mus mus mus mus music music mus sic sic music sic music sic
mini-drop
hook: bow bippa-BOW DOW (etc. etc. etc.)
chill part.
repeat, slightly less chill.
BIG LEAD UP REV THE MOTOR BRRRRM BRRMM
biggest drop
un-tss un-tss un-tss un-tss wub wub chikkawikka chikkwikka scriggy-scriggy-scriggy wop
un-tss un-tss un-tss un-tss
blub-wub blub-wub
music music
mus
mus
the end


Yeah, not bad.

But I would here substitute the long
"chikkawikka chikkwikka scriggy-scriggy-scriggy wop"-part by
a shorter "tchucka tchucka tseeeng tseeeng" part. That should
make it!
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs + weird stuff: enroe.de
estellio
KVRer
 
22 posts since 12 Aug, 2018

Postby estellio; Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:48 am Re: EDM structure

sleepcircle wrote:well not all of the 'difference and development' is that hard all the time
even doing the same hook with a different instrument provides a sense of change
or the same instrument but turning every quarter note into two eighth notes.
or doing it across multiple octaves.
or changing the drum beat in the background.
adding more instruments to the same melody.


but of course stuff like proper arrangements and harmonies helps too. do you know much about writing harmony and counterpoint? it'd be WELL worth looking into.


edit:
@samplecraze, it sounds a bit like he's talking about both

I haven't really done much towards learning about harmony and counterpoint, but now that you mention it, I'll definitely see what I can find out. Thanks for mentioning that - I'm sure it will help in at least one way or another.
estellio
KVRer
 
22 posts since 12 Aug, 2018

Postby estellio; Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:54 am Re: EDM structure

AnX wrote:DJ friendly intro
Build up
Break down
Build up
Middle 8
Wind down
DJ friendly outro

That structure definitely seems the way to go. I'm presuming a DJ friendly intro would have the energy right from the start? Thanks for your help.
AnX
KVRAF
 
2886 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Postby AnX; Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:12 am Re: EDM structure

estellio wrote:
AnX wrote:DJ friendly intro
Build up
Break down
Build up
Middle 8
Wind down
DJ friendly outro

That structure definitely seems the way to go. I'm presuming a DJ friendly intro would have the energy right from the start? Thanks for your help.



No, usually just a beat and minimal music so it can be mixed with the pre/next record.
low_low
KVRist
 
366 posts since 19 Jul, 2018

Postby low_low; Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:51 am Re: EDM structure

Samplecraze wrote:Are we talking about composing EDM or producing it?


In 2018, is there a difference ?
_al_
KVRist
 
293 posts since 28 Oct, 2014

Postby _al_; Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:28 am Re: EDM structure

Keep all major changes in blocks of 16 bars, to keep the DJ happy.

So a minimal intro of 16 or 32 bars and the same with the outro (you'll be ok with 24 bars, if the track demands it).

Just remember that it's human brain that dictates the structure of 4:4 tracks.
In other words, if you are counting along to the kicks of a dance track, like 1234, 1234, your brain is automatically expecting a "reset" (or a change of some sort) every 4 bars, which is why major changes are happening in most EDM tracks every 8 bars.
So changes every 8 bars are acceptable, but a 16 bar grid will help avoid any surprises for the DJ.
You may think 8 bars is fine and 16 bars is overkill but i'll tell you, i can be talking to my friends, paying no attention to the music, and i will still be able to tell them exactly when the end of 16 bars is approaching, even if the track has done nothing noticeable.

An example of the 16 bar grid is 24 bars with kick, followed by 8 bars breakdown. That's 24+8=32. Perfect.
A 24 bar grid is also ok, but i'm not comfortable using it (as a producer)

Of course you should still have subtle changes every 8 bars, or the track will be rather dull. I sometimes do things like having 4 bars no ride, followed by 4 bars with ride, then repeat that again for another 8, and that's fine as long as you're not doing something weird like going into the breakdown after 12 bars, unless your breakdown is 4 or 12 bars. If it's 12 bars, you should still have some type of subtle change after 4 bars to let people know that the "proper" breakdown (the one expected by the brain) is starting now.

An example of the 12 bar breakdown is [28 bars with kick] [4 bars no kick] !! [8 bars no kick]
The !! means add a low verbed kick or some whooshy thing to signify the transition

Sheesh i'm rambling on here. My original post was gonna be "Keep all major changes in blocks of 16 bars, to keep the DJ happy", but you got a bit extra, so i hope it's of some use to you or someone else
estellio
KVRer
 
22 posts since 12 Aug, 2018

Postby estellio; Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:44 pm Re: EDM structure

_al_ wrote:Keep all major changes in blocks of 16 bars, to keep the DJ happy.

So a minimal intro of 16 or 32 bars and the same with the outro (you'll be ok with 24 bars, if the track demands it).

Just remember that it's human brain that dictates the structure of 4:4 tracks.
In other words, if you are counting along to the kicks of a dance track, like 1234, 1234, your brain is automatically expecting a "reset" (or a change of some sort) every 4 bars, which is why major changes are happening in most EDM tracks every 8 bars.
So changes every 8 bars are acceptable, but a 16 bar grid will help avoid any surprises for the DJ.
You may think 8 bars is fine and 16 bars is overkill but i'll tell you, i can be talking to my friends, paying no attention to the music, and i will still be able to tell them exactly when the end of 16 bars is approaching, even if the track has done nothing noticeable.

An example of the 16 bar grid is 24 bars with kick, followed by 8 bars breakdown. That's 24+8=32. Perfect.
A 24 bar grid is also ok, but i'm not comfortable using it (as a producer)

Of course you should still have subtle changes every 8 bars, or the track will be rather dull. I sometimes do things like having 4 bars no ride, followed by 4 bars with ride, then repeat that again for another 8, and that's fine as long as you're not doing something weird like going into the breakdown after 12 bars, unless your breakdown is 4 or 12 bars. If it's 12 bars, you should still have some type of subtle change after 4 bars to let people know that the "proper" breakdown (the one expected by the brain) is starting now.

An example of the 12 bar breakdown is [28 bars with kick] [4 bars no kick] !! [8 bars no kick]
The !! means add a low verbed kick or some whooshy thing to signify the transition

Sheesh i'm rambling on here. My original post was gonna be "Keep all major changes in blocks of 16 bars, to keep the DJ happy", but you got a bit extra, so i hope it's of some use to you or someone else

Thanks so much for explaining that to me - timing is key, so I really appreciate you going into detail. Definitely something I'm going to be taking note of.
User avatar
DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
 
2762 posts since 7 Jun, 2012, from Warsaw

Postby DJ Warmonger; Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:55 pm Re: EDM structure

...or better yet, you can be DJ yourself and try to mix that track with other similiar tracks. You will see where the pitfalls are.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
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