Colour Copy as good as Strymon TIMELINE?

[SLiC]

Its another great delay if you haven't already got the bases covered.
Personally I am happy with Soundtoys, UbberMod, Ultratap and Satin in delay mode!


As an aside, it would be pretty cool if U-HE eventulay but all his effects in a 'rack' (a big like soundtoys) as I must admit I do tend to go for the rack solution rather than adding lots of individual fx.

[bbtr]

It's NOT made for layered trance leads. Made with Dune 2. Sorry. Your expectations are unrealistic. Sorry. This is one device you have to use properly. Go listen to some Zoviet France from the 80's.

Seriously, wot?

If you know what 'layered trance leads' are (sharp, crisp, clean and digital, with lots of unison) - and if you know that Color Copy has a big high frequency roll-off, and pitch changes with repeats, and has lots of 80's saturation... you wouldn't choose it as THE delay for the task - 'layered trance leads' are best delayed with digital delays, ideally without HF roll-off, or just a bit. The cleanest in this respect I've come across is Late Replies. Replika in digital mode, Sandman Pro - not flat, rolling off.

Now, why would you want the repeated sound to be identical with the source, IN THIS CONTEXT. Because digital delays stay homogeneous. Easy to mix, and just enhancing the source. Then play some 'layered trance leads' through Color Copy, see that what you get out of the delay is VERY different from the source. Does it fit in a trance track, or full-on, or similar? Not really. Could do the job for forest, but he's not asking about that.

[DJErmac]

Could do the job for forest, but he's not asking about that.

He makes a valid point here.

[plexuss]

Artists live in a platonic world, it is very hard for them to grasp any sense of objectivity.

That's why they are exploited by all the audio companies.

Art is not objective. That's the point. Every person's physiology is different. It's the same when taken in large chuncks but evertually you get to a level of detail where the differences become great. For example, humans generally have a bicep, and the general shape of the bicep is about the same, but as you examine each bicep in detail, in terms of cell arrangement, they are completely different. Human hearing is like this - we all hear generally the same but no two people will be absolutely identical.

That's the issue: objectivity requires absolutes. Or, absolutes within some acceptable margin of error. I'm afraid the margin of error with human hearing is so wide you can't really expect objectivity. So, subjective we go. Now go make some money.

I also find Colour Copy to sound really good. Like many of you I have many delays and initially I decided not to try CC but figured why not. I was very surprised to find yet another delay with a sound I liked enough to buy it. Plus it has some unique features (eg. the modulation section, the way it ducks). It has a nice musical sound I dont have with other delays. If I wanted a clear precise delay I would not use CC. It lies where it should in terms of fidelty, somewhere between a clean digital delay and a damaged tape delay.

[Urs]

Also, is anybody going to notice the difference in a dense mix?

Yes. Let me lay out one scenario which is pretty unique to Coco:

A delay is what typically gives an instrument (often a lead line, often mono, panned in stereo center) a large space. Larger than, say, reverb. Now, if your mix is dense, you might want to use ducking to remove the echoes from your lead line. You do this to avoid a muddy mix. But then, with most delays, the large space you created just vanishes. Your lead falls apart.

With Coco, because of the way it operates, you can duck the feedback instead of the taps. So you keep the first echo and thus the large space, but you avoid the mud associated with dense feedback, when you need it.

[bbtr]

But he's not after a large space, he wants a delay for layered trance leads made with Dune - which means lots of high frequences, sharp and crisp. In effect, he's after a doubler, quatrupler, etc. but with more timing/panning options. And then those are going to be placed full frontal, in your face, compressed and maximized as much as possible. Which beats the concept of space dead. You know what a dense mix is? Listen to some full-on.

And for LTL you need to preserve the high freqs and the transients and the 'character' of the source - with Color Copy all those are lost.

[EvilDragon]

Well quite obviously then BBD delays are not good for trance period, since they don't retain the character of the source, period.

I could suggest something like UVI Relayer for a pretty great and creative delay. Or, actually, MFM2 can get pretty creative as well, once you tap into (pun intended) its 4x4 feedback matrix.

[rod_zero]

Artists live in a platonic world, it is very hard for them to grasp any sense of objectivity.

That's why they are exploited by all the audio companies.

Art is not objective. That's the point. Every person's physiology is different. It's the same when taken in large chuncks but evertually you get to a level of detail where the differences become great. For example, humans generally have a bicep, and the general shape of the bicep is about the same, but as you examine each bicep in detail, in terms of cell arrangement, they are completely different. Human hearing is like this - we all hear generally the same but no two people will be absolutely identical.

That's the issue: objectivity requires absolutes. Or, absolutes within some acceptable margin of error. I'm afraid the margin of error with human hearing is so wide you can't really expect objectivity. So, subjective we go. Now go make some money.

Totally true, but the problem is that many don't separate between their subjective tastes and objectivity so anything they like is "the best".

And endless discussions about what is "the best" go on and on.

[sleepcircle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTte01kdG_k






In all honesty you might be able to get the trance lead sound out of it if you set the colour knob to "Snap" (flat eq response, compander emphasizes transients) and turn the saturation down a lot, so that the repeats stay nearly the same except near the very end of their audible feedback.

that said, i wouldn't be surprised if this still wasn't enough, if only because very few tools do everything at once; you could hammer in nails with the butt of a screwdriver but it would be awkward and probably slightly painful.

[Vortifex]

..

[bbtr]

Well quite obviously then BBD delays are not good for trance period, since they don't retain the character of the source, period.

Yes, period. Because I say so, period. Stop trying to always come out on top, period. u-he and fanbois, period.

You own the place?

[EvilDragon]

Yes I do, now get off my lawn.

[bbtr]

Maybe next time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc9QS-hyF1g

Sorry, you lose because you don't know shit about the style.

[bbtr]

you could hammer in nails with the butt of a screwdriver but it would be awkward and probably slightly painful.

Exactly!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but I think it's perfectly valid to say "this product lacks features I require, not for me," It's just as reasonable to say, "I think one or two of these small features may improve the product." I think where things start to get silly is when product threads devolve into requests for every feature for every possible use-case scenario. And I'll admit that I don't know where exactly the line is between making a reasonable feature request, and asking for the product to be something it's not...sometimes it's a fine line, sometimes it's pretty well defined.

A few people, myself included, requested "amp ducking" during the beta and got it. Felt like it fit and was a common enough use-case to warrant that type of feature. But if someone were to put out an LA-2A style compressor for example, it wouldn't make sense to see a forum full of responses asking for things like, a mix knob, an external side chain, more ratios, a HP filter in the detector, variable attack/release times, and M/S processing? At some point, that's just a whole different product.

So where is the line between "hey it would be cool if..." and "now you're just asking for an entirely different product?" I don't know. Justice Porter's quote in the 1964 ruling on the topic of oscentiy in Jacobellis v. Ohio seems applicable:

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it."

In short: if Coco doesn't work for a particular sound, that's ok. It's clearly not built to be the be-all-end-all delay plugin. No need to get worked up one way or the other. It's an excellent product for what it does.