What makes a synth suitable for "electronic dance music"?
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- addled muppet weed
- 105553 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- addled muppet weed
- 105553 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 35098 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
- KVRAF
- 21191 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbNymZ7vqYvurt wrote:beelzebub is a bicycle ride for me for me for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Last edited by wagtunes on Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105553 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
apologies.
friday nights always seem to get a bit ot around here
it is an interesting question, but more openly, what makes certain sounds last for generations and what makes others maybe the flavour of the moment for a while then they disappear?
sounds rather than synths, if we take it that while there are favourite synths other synths can at least fulfil parts of their duties maybe?
friday nights always seem to get a bit ot around here
it is an interesting question, but more openly, what makes certain sounds last for generations and what makes others maybe the flavour of the moment for a while then they disappear?
sounds rather than synths, if we take it that while there are favourite synths other synths can at least fulfil parts of their duties maybe?
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- addled muppet weed
- 105553 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
AnX wrote:vurt wrote:beelzebub is a bicycle ride for me for me for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
close
i know, its from the misheard lyrics line on nmtb years back, its just one that's always stuck with me
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- addled muppet weed
- 105553 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
wagtunes wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbNymZ7vqYvurt wrote:beelzebub is a bicycle ride for me for me for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
the animal and kieth moon was an absolute classic too!
- KVRAF
- 6969 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Atlantis Island
Is there a doctor online?Woodgardens wrote:Exactly. I'm just a poor boy, anything which can rock the world, nothing really matters, nothing really matters. That said, you forgot this one:vurt wrote:seems it should be a big hit. blue, gangnam style, crazy frog...Woodgardens wrote:@vurt
Yes, I figured it all out. My first track will be annoying as hell.
these tracks may have scarred people's mental health, but, the producers of said tracks do own their own homes, flashy cars and yachts
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=astISOttCQ0
https://sonograyn.bandcamp.com/music Experimental Ambient
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
1. Thanks for the useful and on-topic replypixel85 wrote:
Ok so as it's about psytrance, not "EDM" I can add a bit more as I have few years on that scene in my portfolio.
First of all you check guy named Artha and say what you think. He's more into oldschool but it's my friend so I can tell you that he's using Synth1, Ableton and nothing really fancy. His synth patches are also very basic (as he told me). https://youtu.be/iputLM6fUwI
I was more into psytrance like Electric Universe (you can look out for Alien Bug but my latest track is from 2012, I hadn't skills then that I have now so be aware that some tracks really suck ). "Eschaton" and "Gates to oblivion" is more like Electric Universe, also first one include some Dubstep sounds (it was also mentioned in this topic )
That kind of sounds are actually pretty simple: 2x detuned saw waves, bp filter + lfo + distortion (here you should go wild) + reverb/delay. Also use envelopes for for pitch changes per note. Any synth can be used here as you'll hit it with saturators, modulators and reverbs to make it big sounding. Saturator is your friend in psytrance. Put it everywhere, double! Same for Delay, don't be shy, go crazy with them.
The synth that was easily "fat" was z3ta, I remember that when I put it on track together with Reaktor and other synths, all of them sounded thin in comparison to z3ta. And of course the same processing goes to all of them so it means something. Unfortunately it's not available anymore beside second hand from time to time (also z3ta 2). tbh I have a lot of synths. I don't need more and still I want to get z3ta 2 (more than Serum).
I see that other synths were mentioned so no need to repeat same thing.
At this moment when I'm thinking about "fat synth straight out of the box" it's: z3ta, Repro 1&5 (useful for sfx and pads in psytrance but not much for leads), Monark, Retrologue.
To fatten synths up, send it to aux/send channel. Add plugin like Doubler, Chorus, Detune, that kind of effect. You can do another aux channel and then pan them left/right. Mix with original synth to taste.
Similar principle for bass, but you have to filter out low end on aux channels. Keep low end mono.
Alright that's all what's on my mind now. Maybe more tricks will come to my mind later
2. I'm listening to your Total Eclipse track as I'm typing this (the first one I found in youtube) and I really like it - the sounds and the mixing and the muscial qualities it has. Really great one Will check other your tracks later.
3. I know Artha's Influencing Dreams album and while I love his melodies, original artamgements and the unusual sounds he is using, when listening to if for the fist time I noted that the overall sound image somehow lacks clarity and punch compared to modern recordings. I didn't know that he was using Synth1, it thougt that since the guy is "oldschool" he must be using some old hardware. I've relistnened to his track "Chaos" right now and compared it to Electric Universe - Bansuri - the latter definitely sounds fatter, cleaner and more powerful.
Artha is still a great artist, his music stands out because of talent and originality, so it's just a minor note.
4. I have that Z3ta synth. I like that it indeed does sound fat and punchy, it somehow reminds me on Virus TI which I also have. I also love the Rapid synth, it also has that powerful fat sound. I was wondering why these synths have these qualities but apparently nobody here really knows that but well, it's enough that they have them
5. Thanks for your mixing and sound desing tips, I use some of them (lots of saturation and distotrion, detune and env to pitch thing, big long delays, many send effets, low end in mono). But to me, when I need "poweful" sound it's easier to start with a synth which already sounds powerful.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
- KVRian
- 642 posts since 22 Jun, 2018
I think a lot of it really comes down to the brightness thing. Like, Rapid and ArcSyn are very bright, while Diva is not, for example. Other things like "snappy" modulation might also be important. If you lower the resolution on Zebra's oscillators and modulate their pitch, they tend to "smear" a lot, for example. Lookup table based synths with only 1 or 2 tables per octave might also not work as well, because they would lack the desired consistency. That and things like bandlimiting would tie back into the whole brightness thing again, but I feel like we crossed a point where that would be a problem a long time ago.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
It may or may not be relevant to "brigntess". Virus TI is far from being the bright by default, here are the pics of Virus and Avenger saw wave
Btw Zebra saw wave has even less HF content than Virus
The pics are taken here, there are more pics of different synths
https://synthmorph.com/blogs/news/acces ... synthmorph
I think it may have something to do with how the synth calculates the oscillators and/or reads the wavetables, I don't really know much about this. Or maybe it's some saturation andslight compression plased at various stages of the signal path. Virus has that "analog boost" thing which makes the sound subjectively a bit more "coherent". As they say in the manual, it does "subtle changes to the sound of the Filters, Oscillators and the character of the nonlinearities and distortions throughout the instrument".
I guess various synths do this differently, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.
Btw Zebra saw wave has even less HF content than Virus
The pics are taken here, there are more pics of different synths
https://synthmorph.com/blogs/news/acces ... synthmorph
I think it may have something to do with how the synth calculates the oscillators and/or reads the wavetables, I don't really know much about this. Or maybe it's some saturation andslight compression plased at various stages of the signal path. Virus has that "analog boost" thing which makes the sound subjectively a bit more "coherent". As they say in the manual, it does "subtle changes to the sound of the Filters, Oscillators and the character of the nonlinearities and distortions throughout the instrument".
I guess various synths do this differently, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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- KVRAF
- 1863 posts since 11 Apr, 2008
It's true, Artha also doesn't go crazy about mixing. He's more like free spirit who make magic music without going crazy into details (totally opposite to me ). Which explains why it sounds like that.
I don't think that anyone here can explain why one synth sound fat out of the box and other don't. You can try to ask U-he but I think that answer would be few books long
It's definitely hidden in programming. Some companies have really smart programmers who can look out of the box and bring new ideas how to make better algorithms etc. They must also know a lot about physics of audio. While others can use just basic code to make synth. I can even see enormous differences between video game programmers. Some are absolutely into programming while others just looking on Google to copy and paste code.
Ps. Artha have Biofeld from hardware but he said that he barely use it. We both grew up on software which is much easier to work with when, like me, you do hundreds of changes over and over again He still use Buzz software. Do you know it? It's absolutely old school. I think it may be 20 years old now. That can't sound as good as modern plugins, no way!
I don't think that anyone here can explain why one synth sound fat out of the box and other don't. You can try to ask U-he but I think that answer would be few books long
It's definitely hidden in programming. Some companies have really smart programmers who can look out of the box and bring new ideas how to make better algorithms etc. They must also know a lot about physics of audio. While others can use just basic code to make synth. I can even see enormous differences between video game programmers. Some are absolutely into programming while others just looking on Google to copy and paste code.
Ps. Artha have Biofeld from hardware but he said that he barely use it. We both grew up on software which is much easier to work with when, like me, you do hundreds of changes over and over again He still use Buzz software. Do you know it? It's absolutely old school. I think it may be 20 years old now. That can't sound as good as modern plugins, no way!
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- KVRAF
- 35262 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Doesn't surprise me. Most of the older VA's, regardless of hardware or software, don't have much high frequency spectrum. I think it's due to the restriction of processing power, back in the days. The DSP chips in the hardware VA's also were pretty restricted in that regard.recursive one wrote:It may or may not be relevant to "brigntess". Virus TI is far from being the bright by default, here are the pics of Virus and Avenger saw wave
I'd even say it contributes to the pleasant sound many people like from the older synths. Alongside the aliasing. Makes some "airy", warm sound, when the synth has also a bit beef in the lower registers.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105553 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
still no idea what "modular fart music" is?
but at least now i know what a man with baby balls looks like. so the thread has taught me something
but at least now i know what a man with baby balls looks like. so the thread has taught me something