KVR Audio

nachenko · Post by **nachenko** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:32 pm

Probably a bit offtopic, but worth a chat, maybe.

I've been off from music stuff for eight to ten years. I'm trying to catch up now and WTF? Things are awesome, truly awesome, Roland, Korg, Elektron, Arturia, new companies like Dreadbox, so much beautiful stuff, so on and so on, but...

From what I can read, the hardware/software integration has not moved as much as I expected in the 8 years I've been out. I expected EVERYONE to copy Virus Total Integration idea (but this time, working as expected). Many hardware synths offer MIDI over USB, but in many cases I can't see any straightforward way to save patches in the DAW project itself. Elektron got a prize in 2016 for their Overbridge software... but the text in their website talks about it as a product that is not yet finished. Is it finished, or not? Am I missing something? MIDI by USB, but still not proper patch browser in many cases... I also expected hardware analog synths to be able to auto-dump their audio to the DAW using some kind of plugin. I expected MUCH MORE.

Did I miss latest memo, or the integration I expected didn't ever happen?

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:47 pm

Two of the biggest commercial drivers in the past few years have been a resurgence of analog and a push to reduce prices. Those two factors, taken together, all but eliminate the possibility of total patch recall and two way communication between the hardware and a software VST editor.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:16 pm

You have been away too long. Software and hardware devs and users are at full blown war. The former try to eliminate the emulation software market by offering true analog synths at low prices. The Behringer tribes have openly declared that they do not “believe” in software emulations and flood the market with authentic sounding vintage clones. If one side makes move toward the other, e.g. by suggestng overbriding, they are nothing less than traitors. On the internet, the mobs, fanbois, supporters and usual nutcases are flaying each other apart in orgies of bloodlust. It is chaos, violence, fight to the death. There will be no peace and integration. Last man standing is the winner and software is getting beaten like never before. In a few years, KVR will be nothing but hardware subforums and software issues will be HPC material.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:30 pm

A planet where hardware evolved from software?!

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:56 pm

Elektron have Overbridge for some of their boxes ...
https://www.elektron.se/overbridge/

Moog made a VST editor for the SUB37 ...
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2016/ ... available/

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:38 am

Sadly not much has changed. Nektar panorama controllers seem good with certain vsts and certain hosts. But doesn’t change things much from novation SLs. NI did the komplete Kontrol keyboards which are ok for tweaking tons of presets but not for full control, not really integrated at all. Bitwig has some great scripts for control surfaces like push and some others. That’s about it.

Omnisphere recently did an update that lets you use a bunch of hardware synths as controllers for omnisphere. It’s ok but not a cheap solution if you don’t already have one of the synths. I wouldn’t mind trying replicate the prophet x controls messages on a novation SL for use with omnisphere. That would give quite a comprehensive control surface for Omnisphere.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:08 am

The roland System 8 and System 1 can load "plugouts" which work as plugins in your DAW, so you can use the same audio engine in HW or SW form.

db3 · Post by **db3** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:13 pm

Elektron realised Overbridge which is the closest you'll get to Virus control, but Overbridge version 2 was promised for all new products for the end of 2017...and it's still only in beta now.

Roland System 8 requires you to subscribe to Roland Cloud to access the plugins for editing/recall in you DAW...but I don't think you can set the plugins to use zero voices. i.e. they consume CPU when you only want to generate sound in hardware.

Moog's VST editors for Minitaur, Phatty, and Sub series are excellent. Probably better than total integration (if you've got sufficient analogue inputs) as you avoid unnecessary timing issues as per Virus.

IK's new UNO synth looks to have very nice VST editor.

I'm surprised more synth companies don't embrace the idea. Having Patch editing and total recall in a DAW is key for me. Behringer even went to the trouble of creating an excellent editor for Deepmind, but without a VST version.

Most of Dave Smith's synths have a VST editor available through Soundtower or Code knobs.
http://www.soundtower.com/plugse/
http://codeknobs.com/product_list.php

Other 3rd party VST editors include:
https://www.mysteryislands-music.com/
https://www.monstrummedia.com/
https://sh-01a-midi-editor.jimdo.com/
http://rekonaudio.com/products

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:51 pm

This probably hasn’t become a thing because of how difficult it is to get it right (see Access Virus TI). Why put the time/money into developing it when you want to sell something new to the same customers in a year anyway?

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:04 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:This probably hasn’t become a thing because of how difficult it is to get it right (see Access Virus TI). Why put the time/money into developing it when you want to sell something new to the same customers in a year anyway?

And also it is becoming more expensive to maintain SW because Apple keeps updating every year.

sprnva · Post by **sprnva** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:12 am

Basically, software won. People went all into the box and tweaking with midi controllers was good enough. There was less need for actual hardware with DAW integration.

Hardware has been having a resurgence in recent years but that's largely as a means of getting OUT of the box.

pandashake · Post by **pandashake** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:15 am

deastman wrote:A planet where hardware evolved from software?!

Come on, I thought it was funny.

risome · Post by **risome** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:56 am

Still the best integration is Midi in and audio out to your audio interface from your hardware to your computer. Midi and Audio over USB sucks.Also having a seperate midi interface along with a good audio interface helps, although hi end audio interfaces come with good midi in/out.I use RME UFX+ audio interface and Iconnectivity MIO 4 midi interface.
Cheers

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:54 am

risome wrote:Still the best integration is Midi in and audio out to your audio interface from your hardware to your computer. Midi and Audio over USB sucks.

Well, its not the 'best' integration, but it is the most ubiquitous. I think, where its possible, full standardised VST-style parameter automation and preset recall would be best. But the MIDI.org mill grindeth too slow, and the DAW factories dont seem interested in collaborating on standards.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:12 am

risome wrote:Still the best integration is Midi in and audio out to your audio interface from your hardware to your computer. Midi and Audio over USB sucks.

In lack of experience with it: What exactly sucks with MIDI and audio over USB?

What happened to hardware and software integration while I was out?