YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
AlesisVi61
KVRist
397 posts since 17 Sep, 2014

Post Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:02 am

Watchful wrote:It's clearly half of a Montage in most respects, although some elements will be identical (polyphony, engines, arpeggios, etc.).

Not a fan of where they put the mod wheel and pitch bend. Also curious how easy it will be to import Montage sounds; probably 95% of Montage performances should import right in.
Clearly half of the Montage?Really?Where are you getting your information?From nowhere,would be my guess(as you are just merely speculating,based on just the price factor.)

The MODX is virtually identical to that of the Montage(except for these differences:)

192 note polyhpony

No aftertouch

Plastic casing

Limited application of effects

Downgraded D/A converter

Downgraded tactile quality among the semi-weighted key-beds

Limited to only one pair of stereo outputs,as well as limited DAW integration


.75 GB less of internal memory

Apart from those features,everything else is identical...which means that you get all of the WAV ROM,the same synth engine and the same touchscreen(which is very generous,for the MODX's price-points.)
Finally...a budget synth with computer software quality sounds!As for the location of the pitch and mod wheels,I agree with you,that it is a very awkward configuration(a very unfortunate trend,in today's modern keyboards.)

Watchful
KVRist
125 posts since 9 Jan, 2018

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:29 am

I got my information from a single photograph that became available before any tech specs were published.

The picture shows four arp lanes, not 8. It shows 4 mod knobs instead of 8. Four sliders instead of 8. The price wasn't available at the time, just the photo. All the information you have was released well after my speculative post.

Since it's been a while that I've commented on the MODX, I am pleased that the MODX has generated such excitement. In practically every forum where it's discussed, people are hungry for this keyboard. I haven't seen any really negative comments or reviews of it, and I expect it's going to result in some changes by other keyboard makers to compete. It's been a long time since a Yamaha keyboard has produced such excitement: I hope this translates to sales.

Also, I believe the "limited DAW integration" is temporary; this will come out in a later OS release, just as it did for the Montage. As it is, the Montage's DAW integration is fairly contained to Cubase, Ableton Live, and ProTools. I expect there are others that could respond or be mapped to respond, but this might produce mixed results.

JCJR
KVRAF
2364 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:03 am

AlesisVi61 wrote: .75 GB less of internal memory
Have you heard whether the MODX has a flash ram expansion slot as in the MOXF? Perhaps most simple if the thang would use exactly the same ram cards they sell for the MOXF but that might be "too good to be true".

Am just thinking that if the flash ram could be boosted pretty big, it would be nice to maybe store some of one's own samples in the axe.

Watchful
KVRist
125 posts since 9 Jan, 2018

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:13 pm

The Montage doesn't have one, and I don't see where it would be on the MODX (the two operate very similarly but VERY different from the MOXF or Motif lines); on the other hand, there's 1.75GB flash ROM for your waveforms on both the Montage and MODX, so its storage is pretty big as is...but not sure how that compares with a tricked-out MOXF.

I haven't imported samples into the Montage yet, but Yamaha is insisting I start using Sample Robot for the Montage, and since it's free, I'm inclined to try. I imagine the process for the MODX is identical.

Martkorg
KVRer
6 posts since 6 Oct, 2018

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:50 am

Have to say not really a fan of Yamaha although in the early days i had a CS10 which was good i moved to the DX27 and hated it,then the Yamaha CS1x which was ok but not great

However the Yamaha MODX6 has peaked my interest,decent price and i like the idea of a touchscreen and sounds are excellent looking at some You Tube videos

I currently have a Korg Radias kb bought it when it first came out and still in near pristine condition,i would have to sell it to purchase the Yamaha MODx6

Trip to Dawsons Music to try out the MODX i think

iPlogger
KVRian
691 posts since 27 Oct, 2011 from Pacific Northwest

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:42 pm

JCJR wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:32 pm
It seems like a MOXF in addition to a nice FM synth, for the price of a MOXF.
This is what I'm trying to figure out. I have a MOXF6 which has been terrific. If I could sell mine and get the MODX, it seems like a great deal. I do have the 512MB flash card, but I don't really use the sounds using those samples. So if the MODX doesn't let me move the samples over, it wouldn't be too much of a loss for me.

Just thinking this through and trying to better understand the MODX vs. MOFX. If my current sounds are 100% compatible, I may think seriously about upgrading maybe next year.

JCJR
KVRAF
2364 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:29 am

Martkorg wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:50 am
Have to say not really a fan of Yamaha although in the early days i had a CS10 which was good i moved to the DX27 and hated it,then the Yamaha CS1x which was ok but not great
Everybody has different taste and not all like yamaha DX-flavor FM sound. However a few of the low-end early Yamaha DX synths including DX27 (if I recall correctly) were probably mistakes for Yamaha to ever sell, because the keyboards were not velocity-sensitive (though the synths were velocity-sensitive to received MIDI).

Before about the time of the DX7 very few analog poly or mono synths had velocity sensitive keys and were quite usable without velocity sensitivity (but would have been more awesome had it been included). As best I recall the Prophet T8, Arp Chroma, Arp/Rhodes Chroma Polaris were among the earliest analog hybrids with velocity sensitivity.

I guess at that time it costed "more than a dollar or two" to add velocity sensitivity to a synth and so Yamaha left it off a few of the lower-price DX synths, but the velocity is more important to a DX FM sound and they sound rather wimpy bad 1-dimensional without velocity sensitive playing. A "big advantage" of the FM was very good timbral response to velocity, so under the control of the fingers one FM patch could have LOTS of timbres depending on how hard the musician plays each key. If the sound is too bright, the musician just plays easier and the sound mellows out, etc. But if you "freeze" that big timbre range into one tone that always comes out every time you whack a key regardless how hard or soft, any one "frozen snapshot" of that wide-range of timbres sounds like crap, or at least thin and boring.

FM just doesn't do good without velocity, IMO. But you may have not liked the sound even with velocity response. Just sayin, I liked DX7, TX7, TX816 etc quite a bit but couldn't stand to play the few early non-velocity DX synths which sounded awful with the timbre so limited on each patch.

Occasionally have heard timbre complaints about FM from folks who step-time in constant-velocity patterns to the computer, or entered with notation programs or piano roll, or "slamming" players who always pound the keys. Its the same deal. Most FM patches played with all notes slammed at high volume are not gonna sound so pretty because the highest-velocity tone is sposed to be the "spice" not the meat-and-potatoes. But any middle or low constant velocity playing gives the same boring result, in that case too much potatoes and not enough spice. :)
Watchful wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:13 pm
The Montage doesn't have one, and I don't see where it would be on the MODX (the two operate very similarly but VERY different from the MOXF or Motif lines); on the other hand, there's 1.75GB flash ROM for your waveforms on both the Montage and MODX, so its storage is pretty big as is...but not sure how that compares with a tricked-out MOXF.

I haven't imported samples into the Montage yet, but Yamaha is insisting I start using Sample Robot for the Montage, and since it's free, I'm inclined to try. I imagine the process for the MODX is identical.
Thanks Watchful. When I read in a message above that one diff between Montage and MODX is that MODX has 0.75 GB less memory, I assumed a chunk that big would be reduction of sample flash storage. Was just a wild guess. Usually patches and sequences and such require hardly any memory at all compared to samples, and that is a big difference if the info is accurate. Its hard to believe that either Montage or MODX would need anywhere near 0.75 GB for ALL patch and sequence storage.

But if the MODX has 1.75 GB Flash "factory installed" than I think that is more than you could usually get with a MOXF + memory card. I vaguely recall MAYBE seeing a 2 GB Motif/MOXF flash card but think the usual sizes were 512 MB and 1 GB, and all the flash expander cards were fairly expensive add-ons.

So if the MODX had 1.75 GB user sample memory built-in, almost sounds like they are "giving away the store" considering all the other goodies, and the price.

mac4d
KVRer
18 posts since 20 Apr, 2010

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:51 am

modx page at yamaha site...
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_p ... tures.html

MODX includes 1 GB of non-volatile user flash memory with high speed reading/writing for your own custom samples or synth libraries from yamahamusicsoft.com.

bill45
KVRAF
2227 posts since 15 Jun, 2006

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:10 pm

mac4d wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:51 am
modx page at yamaha site...
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_p ... tures.html

MODX includes 1 GB of non-volatile user flash memory with high speed reading/writing for your own custom samples or synth libraries from yamahamusicsoft.com.
Thanks. What is in the update?

User avatar
jacqueslacouth
KVRian
865 posts since 18 Nov, 2004

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:15 pm

I can't help but feel that Yamaha may have had a real winner simply releasing a modern 8 op FM synth with a quality keybed including aftertouch and a swag of real time controls. If you look at the fervour with which auctions for FS1Rs are approached, there is clearly a demand.

The added bonus of not including the AWM2 engine would be that the Yamaha demonstrators would have to do something other than bore the crap out of us with their banging on about the farking pianos.

AlesisVi61
KVRist
397 posts since 17 Sep, 2014

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:58 pm

jacqueslacouth wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:15 pm
I can't help but feel that Yamaha may have had a real winner simply releasing a modern 8 op FM synth with a quality keybed including aftertouch and a swag of real time controls. If you look at the fervour with which auctions for FS1Rs are approached, there is clearly a demand.

The added bonus of not including the AWM2 engine would be that the Yamaha demonstrators would have to do something other than bore the crap out of us with their banging on about the farking pianos.
Why is it so damn important to have a Yamaha synth,for dedicated FM synthesis??What's wrong with a Digitone or a Korg Prologue?
Legions of people on YouTube are pissing and moaning about the lack of aftertouch on the MODX(as if aftertouch is the only means of implementing effects..WTF?)
The MODX has plenty of expressive abilities(control wheels,Superknob and an optional expression pedal.)
The whole objective of the MODX is to be a budget version of the Montage and Yamaha did a beautiful job,in determining what the production cuts were going to be(as you have ALL the key elements of the Montage..i.e. the full WAV ROM,FM-X,effects and the amazing 7" touchscreen!)No other company has ever offered so much,in a budget synth and yet,the phalanx of complaints are staggeringly shameful.
Oh and by the way...if the pianos bore the piss out of you,there's plenty of other videos that showcase the FM-X synth amply.

User avatar
Fleer
KVRAF
3926 posts since 23 Aug, 2014 from Boston/Cambridge

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:05 pm

Word :tu:

User avatar
jacqueslacouth
KVRian
865 posts since 18 Nov, 2004

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:47 pm

AlesisVi61 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:58 pm
jacqueslacouth wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:15 pm
I can't help but feel that Yamaha may have had a real winner simply releasing a modern 8 op FM synth with a quality keybed including aftertouch and a swag of real time controls. If you look at the fervour with which auctions for FS1Rs are approached, there is clearly a demand.

The added bonus of not including the AWM2 engine would be that the Yamaha demonstrators would have to do something other than bore the crap out of us with their banging on about the farking pianos.
Why is it so damn important to have a Yamaha synth,for dedicated FM synthesis??What's wrong with a Digitone or a Korg Prologue?
Legions of people on YouTube are pissing and moaning about the lack of aftertouch on the MODX(as if aftertouch is the only means of implementing effects..WTF?)
The MODX has plenty of expressive abilities(control wheels,Superknob and an optional expression pedal.)
The whole objective of the MODX is to be a budget version of the Montage and Yamaha did a beautiful job,in determining what the production cuts were going to be(as you have ALL the key elements of the Montage..i.e. the full WAV ROM,FM-X,effects and the amazing 7" touchscreen!)No other company has ever offered so much,in a budget synth and yet,the phalanx of complaints are staggeringly shameful.
Oh and by the way...if the pianos bore the piss out of you,there's plenty of other videos that showcase the FM-X synth amply.
Yikes, steady on their tiger....might want to lay off the Angry Pops for breakfast. It's really ok... :hug:

UnWorldly
KVRist
35 posts since 13 Jan, 2013

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:59 am

If you really don't like the modx compromises, the Montage prices have been slowly falling over the past year. While searching for used fs1r's, I found my montage6 for under 2000 usd.

I'm still trying to work out a way to replicate the missing formant waveform, it sorta seems possible with motion sequences and samples from the awm side, that or tweaking the res1/res2 waves in fm.

My FM tips:
Algorithm 81 is the my favorite. Selectable waveforms mean there is less need for tall operator stacks. Maybe they come in handy for percussive sounds. The 'skirt' parameter of the waveforms behaves much the same way as the feedback parameter on older synths (except those few algorithms where the feedback lops around multiple operators, feedback is still there if you want to use those). The John Melas editor is really convenient mainly due the ability to copy and paste envelopes across operators. Tweaking multiple envelopes is the most tedious part of FM. Sometimes I find myself wanting curved and looping envelopes, 'motion sequences' can almost entirely fill that need. The motion sequences are kind of halfway between lfo and envelope and can be assigned to nearly any parameter. Sometimes I want higher resolution in the skirt parameter, for those situations we just have to stack a couple operators to get the desired affect instead.

Also, that soundmondo site is full of great sounds that are easy to import.

bill45
KVRAF
2227 posts since 15 Jun, 2006

Re: YAMAHA MODX 6/7/8 Midrange units with Montage DNA

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:48 am

Those FSR 1's are going for $1000

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