Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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jancivil
KVRAF
16111 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:16 pm

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:29 am
jancivil wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:02 am
I can actually imagine a drum controller by ROLI, why wouldn't they?
The Rise is already the best drum controller I've used. I've dropped using my mod'ed mpd pads, along with the PadKontrol, in favour of the Roli. It's much more sensitive, much more consistent, and I can now map/use many more articulations than I could with 4x4 grid.

The only thing I still am interested in is the Joué. Amongst other things, It can function as a pretty compact 48-pad controller. Of course, it also has the MPE expression :tu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 4hAngwFf_s
I actually learned about the ROLI Seaboard via looking up the Continuum after I saw AR Rahman in a youtube video using one. It's extremely expensive.

But I don't know how the pressure is going to work for the velocity to pitch feature in BFD3, and BFD3 to be performing any continuous action which would translate from continuous pressure change of a surface particularly, I don't know. It may be superfluous in terms of writing values in a lane, but I'm imaging something with direct feel like the bayan and even with a proper surface. But I can see how it would easily be better than normal pads. The Boppad (I like the harder surface for drums) can send CC and pressure but it's really fiddly and the most sensitive setting creates muy mucho crosstalk between quadrants. Also, too, the multiple aspect, I think anyway that BFD3 in particular isn't going to leverage it like the things written for it.

dreamvoid
KVRist
214 posts since 8 Jun, 2009

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:41 pm

plexuss wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:23 pm
Do you honestly believe you will be using the same software you have now in 50 years? 50 years ago was 1968.... I dont know anyone running software from 1968 except vintage computer enthusiasts and maybe some banks running on legacy system. But... whatever... *backs away slowly* :phones:
We don't know about 50 years yet, but I use some Waves plug ins until their newest incarnations now for around 25 years. And I expect Waves to continue their updates for new OS developments. I'm a big fan of total recall principles as I think it helps to develop artists esthetics. Like a painter relying on certain colour materials and then somebody stopped producing them without a full replacement. Software for artist work should not seen as junk food apps, but for serious applications. I don't like Pro Tools but I can open my Pro Tools sessions from the 90ies on any new PT version - that is how it should be.
Concerning FXpansion - I always stop buying products from companies that are not supporting artist development this way - why should I then support them? (I have licenses for SynthQuad, Geist2, Bloom)

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
1573 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:07 am

Does Protools open a session completely which originally had 32 -bit RTAS plug-ins with its 64-bit AAX replacements? Just curious...

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10771 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:32 am

jancivil wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:16 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:29 am
jancivil wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:02 am
I can actually imagine a drum controller by ROLI, why wouldn't they?
The Rise is already the best drum controller I've used. I've dropped using my mod'ed mpd pads, along with the PadKontrol, in favour of the Roli. It's much more sensitive, much more consistent, and I can now map/use many more articulations than I could with 4x4 grid.

The only thing I still am interested in is the Joué. Amongst other things, It can function as a pretty compact 48-pad controller. Of course, it also has the MPE expression :tu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 4hAngwFf_s
I actually learned about the ROLI Seaboard via looking up the Continuum after I saw AR Rahman in a youtube video using one. It's extremely expensive.

But I don't know how the pressure is going to work for the velocity to pitch feature in BFD3, and BFD3 to be performing any continuous action which would translate from continuous pressure change of a surface particularly, I don't know. It may be superfluous in terms of writing values in a lane, but I'm imaging something with direct feel like the bayan and even with a proper surface. But I can see how it would easily be better than normal pads. The Boppad (I like the harder surface for drums) can send CC and pressure but it's really fiddly and the most sensitive setting creates muy mucho crosstalk between quadrants. Also, too, the multiple aspect, I think anyway that BFD3 in particular isn't going to leverage it like the things written for it.
Seems KM can't seem to ever sort out his QC issues :scared:

When you talk of velocity-to-pitch, I assume you mean for things like a conga 'moose-call' or various other drum skin tuning manipulations i.e for tabla, playing toms with hands, palm 'heels', elbows etc. Though I don't have anything like this set up to test, I don't see why a Roli 'board wouldn't allow that with a strike/aftertouch/glide combo (you can really dig into the material and get a lot of movement). I'm sure FXP/Roli have to be thinking of how to exploit this for the next iteration of BFD.

As for "extremely expensive": Maybe you are referring to the Seaboard 'Grand', which is a few thousand. The 'Rise' keyboards, while not cheap, do cover a range of budgets. I bought the Rise 49 at a point when I never should have been buying such luxury items. However, I took a gamble that it would be a wise investment, both in the sense of how much it might re-kindle my joy in playing/making music, and how I knew that if I didn't put the cash into something solid (And it's really f**king solid), then I'd just end up blowing the money, sooner or later, on worthless nonsense. I was definitely right on the first count, and I bet I was right on the second. It was also the best quality instrument I'd ever owned. Despite having played guitar for over 35 years, I've never owned an instrument that cost more than 350 quid. So, it's all kinda relative.

I got the Rise 49 new for 1000 euros. It came with a carrying case, the full Equator software, the full Strobe2 software, and now I am eligible for 50% off Cypher 2. The thing is built like a tank, and feels like it's worth much more than what I paid for it. It has completely changed the way I interact with sound. It feels like there is a connection offered up by the general sensitivity, tactile response etc, that makes even non-5D, non-MPE sounds feel alive and like real instruments.

Getting in on the fun can cost as little as a couple of hundred dollars, if you are prepared to fore-go full sized waves (keys), and settle for a couple of octaves. It would make a great lead controller, and also give 24 'pads' for drumming :tu:

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
1573 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:42 am

The Linnstrument is also pretty nice for finger drumming and as it has a hard surface has a more precise physical feedback for that use case...

But if Roli came up with something like the Wavedrum just as controller I‘d be sold in an instance. If Korg would have made the Wavedrum as a controller I would have one... Whenever I got hold of a Wavedrum I had serious fun... Never happened with drum pads to me...

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10771 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:07 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:42 am
The Linnstrument is also pretty nice for finger drumming and as it has a hard surface has a more precise physical feedback for that use case...
I'm not sure it's worth putting too much stock in hardness or feedback for finger drumming. Those kinds of qualities are necessary for playing with sticks, where taut-ness helps determine how the sticks bounce. But fingers don't really bounce like that. Either way, the Roli gives me enough feedback to be able to be extremely consistent in a huge range of velocities, and enough 'bounce' to allow basic double-stroke stuff.

For me, the bigger issue with the 'L' for finger-drumming would be the tiny strike area. With the larger strike area afforded by the Roli, I can use two-fingered techniques on the same wave (key). This can't be done with normal keyboards, as you have to wait for the key to physically return to 'centre'. With the 'L' you'd have to mirror the assignment to another 'key' right above each key already assigned.

The whole thing just seems too fiddly for me. There are other reasons why I'd want a Linnstrument, but finger-drumming ain't one.

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Aloysius
KVRAF
22469 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from a computer

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:35 am

Frankly. No relation to Bruce Lee.
Happy Christmas

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10771 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:19 am

Aloysius wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:35 am
Frankly. No relation to Bruce Lee.
Aloysius! I didn't realise that you wrote poetry :shrug:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dnCitAqPIM

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Aloysius
KVRAF
22469 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from a computer

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:33 am

I'm a poet and I don't even know it.
Happy Christmas

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
10771 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:12 am

Aloysius wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:33 am
I'm a poet and I don't even know it.
I didn't realise you wrote such bloody awful poetry :scared:

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jancivil
KVRAF
16111 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:20 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:32 am
jancivil wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:16 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:29 am
jancivil wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:02 am
I can actually imagine a drum controller by ROLI, why wouldn't they?
The Rise is already the best drum controller I've used. I've dropped using my mod'ed mpd pads, along with the PadKontrol, in favour of the Roli. It's much more sensitive, much more consistent, and I can now map/use many more articulations than I could with 4x4 grid.

The only thing I still am interested in is the Joué. Amongst other things, It can function as a pretty compact 48-pad controller. Of course, it also has the MPE expression :tu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 4hAngwFf_s
I actually learned about the ROLI Seaboard via looking up the Continuum after I saw AR Rahman in a youtube video using one. It's extremely expensive.

But I don't know how the pressure is going to work for the velocity to pitch feature in BFD3, and BFD3 to be performing any continuous action which would translate from continuous pressure change of a surface particularly, I don't know. It may be superfluous in terms of writing values in a lane, but I'm imaging something with direct feel like the bayan and even with a proper surface. But I can see how it would easily be better than normal pads. The Boppad (I like the harder surface for drums) can send CC and pressure but it's really fiddly and the most sensitive setting creates muy mucho crosstalk between quadrants. Also, too, the multiple aspect, I think anyway that BFD3 in particular isn't going to leverage it like the things written for it.
Seems KM can't seem to ever sort out his QC issues :scared:
I thought about returning the thing because of the weird shit that gets recorded. But I can get very fast shit in with it I can't have done except for the Zendrum, which I lost and which starts at 1000 bucks.
When you talk of velocity-to-pitch, I assume you mean for things like a conga 'moose-call' or various other drum skin tuning manipulations i.e for tabla, playing toms with hands, palm 'heels', elbows etc. Though I don't have anything like this set up to test, I don't see why a Roli 'board wouldn't allow that with a strike/aftertouch/glide combo (you can really dig into the material and get a lot of movement). I'm sure FXP/Roli have to be thinking of how to exploit this for the next iteration of BFD.
Yes. BFD has a setting for any kit piece, velocity to pitch, so the engine exploits the pitch in every case if you want. It can't be MIDI or Host Automation learned, so it's strictly velocity. I would like to see pressure leveraged so as to press down on the surface and pitch potential follows that, and then velocity is meaningful in addition to that.
As for "extremely expensive": Maybe you are referring to the Seaboard 'Grand', which is a few thousand. The 'Rise' keyboards, while not cheap, do cover a range of budgets. I bought the Rise 49 at a point when I never should have been buying such luxury items. However, I took a gamble that it would be a wise investment, both in the sense of how much it might re-kindle my joy in playing/making music, and how I knew that if I didn't put the cash into something solid (And it's really f**king solid), then I'd just end up blowing the money, sooner or later, on worthless nonsense. I was definitely right on the first count, and I bet I was right on the second. It was also the best quality instrument I'd ever owned. Despite having played guitar for over 35 years, I've never owned an instrument that cost more than 350 quid. So, it's all kinda relative.
I was referring to the Haken Continuum. $5290. They're about to launch 'Continuumini'.
I got the Rise 49 new for 1000 euros. It came with a carrying case, the full Equator software, the full Strobe2 software, and now I am eligible for 50% off Cypher 2. The thing is built like a tank, and feels like it's worth much more than what I paid for it. It has completely changed the way I interact with sound. It feels like there is a connection offered up by the general sensitivity, tactile response etc, that makes even non-5D, non-MPE sounds feel alive and like real instruments.

Getting in on the fun can cost as little as a couple of hundred dollars, if you are prepared to fore-go full sized waves (keys), and settle for a couple of octaves. It would make a great lead controller, and also give 24 'pads' for drumming :tu:
I bought the Seaboard Block, the 24 key deal. I'm no keyboardist and something big is going to be hard to access with my setup anyway. Also bought the Equator.

MPE can be leveraged for use for regular old VST2.4 instruments via Note Expression in Cubendo.

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
16111 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:33 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:07 am
Tj Shredder wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:42 am
The Linnstrument is also pretty nice for finger drumming and as it has a hard surface has a more precise physical feedback for that use case...
I'm not sure it's worth putting too much stock in hardness or feedback for finger drumming. Those kinds of qualities are necessary for playing with sticks, where taut-ness helps determine how the sticks bounce. But fingers don't really bounce like that.
It isn't about the bounce for me, of course fingers don't bounce; it's about firmness. Also one of the plusses for me looking at the Boppad is you can use sticks. I was a drummer before I did anything else and I was a virtuoso on banging on the car dashboard or table top before that. :D

So with the Zendrum the surface is quite hard. It's meaningful if you want to do fast fills or fast anything, for me anyway.

egbert101
KVRAF
2123 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:17 am

This thread looks like a lynch party.
No rest for the wicked.

User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
1573 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:28 am

Frankly impossible to take that whining seriously!

I love my Cypher 2, those who bought the legacy products are still able to use them, the servers are up and probably will be there for more years...
Setup your virtual machines for the rescue and go on...

Stefken
KVRian
666 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Frankly impossible to take FXpansion seriously at this point.

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:19 am

I'll just say that I love Cypher 2 as well, and that a new version is coming (probably next week).

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