Tape recorder conection error

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
LETHWOLF
KVRer
7 posts since 4 Jul, 2018

Post Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:29 am

Hi,

I just bought my first tape recorder is a philips n4404. I want to connect the output of the recorder to my mixer. The only thing is that I don't know how to do that. I don't understand the ouput/input names on the device. Could someone explain to me wat kind of connections these are or how I would go about connecting the recorder to my mixer.
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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8514 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:51 am

The Lousp.L and R are your outputs.
It has a built in amp.
As these are expected to be wired directly to speakers youll need to make or mod some cables.

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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8514 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:55 am

This might help, sorry if it insults your intelligence !

https://www.techwalla.com/articles/how- ... -inch-jack

Spitfire31
KVRAF
2773 posts since 18 May, 2003 from Sweden

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:35 am

The loudspeaker outputs (LOUDSP. L. and LOUDSP. R.) are not ideal for connecting to the LINE input of a mixer – wrong impedance and the signal will be too hot as well as dependent on how you set the volume control on the tape deck.

The output you want is labelled RADIO. It accepts line level in and provides line level out (independent of the volume setting on the deck). That's the good news.

The bad (?) news is that you'll have to get hold of an audio cable with a 5 pin male DIN plug at one end and, if you're lucky, with four individual cables with, for instance, RCA plugs at the other end. Then it's just a matter of running a tape and checking which cables carry the output signal. You'll maybe need some RCA > 6.5mm plug adapters or similar, depending on what sort of input plugs your mixer needs.

If you can't find the above ready made DIN cable, you may have to get hold of the components and a five lead audio cable and do some soldering. The schematics of the N4404 is readily available on the Internet, as a reference on how to solder the five pin DIN connector. It's a bit fiddly, but quite doable.

Good luck!

/Joachim
If it were easy, anybody could do it!

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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8514 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:40 am

Apologies, I thought those other connections were inputs

lfm
KVRAF
4625 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:42 am

Radio - line level kind of level as input like a tuner, usually 0.3Vrms(roughly -10 dBV) from mixer.
Phono - moving magnetic kind of vinyl pickup probably with RIAA correction built in.
Micro - microphone mono or stereo. Nothing needing phantom power, I guess.

Loudspeaker as said, is speaker outputs and probably expect like 4-8 ohm or so. You might get rather bad sound connecting to mixer that is usually 10 kohm or so. Just try and see.

Taperecorder often has input signal through when record is activated, so you don't get feedback.

Jim Y
KVRist
386 posts since 29 Jun, 2008 from Mid Wales, UK.

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:02 am

The service manual is easy to find as a scanned pdf, but it isn't exactly clear. It gave me a headache. An owner/user manual might have clearer information, but I couldn't find one.

Agree that radio/tuner is the main one and you should try to find a 5pin DIN to phono adapter cable.

What I can see is that the middle pin 2 is common ground (screen) for all the connections.
However, while the case is labelled in clear english as to what each connector is for, the manual does not.
I "think" the radio plug is...
1 Left in
3 Right in
...but I'll admit the drawing doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

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BertKoor
KVRAF
10740 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:54 pm

Image

Buying ready-made is easier. Probably the OP is already waiting for shipping from a 1972 Radio Shack catalogue ;-)
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Image
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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
23104 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:22 pm

My dad had a hifi in the 70s with those 5 pin connections for the deck & amp. The radio connection is most likely to be line level. Phono is for a turntable.

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
23104 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:23 pm

Double post

LETHWOLF
KVRer
7 posts since 4 Jul, 2018

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:19 pm

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the response! A quick search and I found the cable I was looking for.
I want to use the tape recorder as a delay fx by sending the signal to my AUX channel and also on a stereo channel.I if I understand this correctly I can use the radio/micro connection as a input and for the LOUDSP I need to solder a couple of wires so that I can send the output of the tape machine in to my mixer.

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BertKoor
KVRAF
10740 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:22 pm

LETHWOLF wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:19 pm
I want to use the tape recorder as a delay fx
Of the several tape machines I had, none could pull that off. The Revox of a friend could. So don't hold your breath on that.
The machine needs separate recording & playback heads and monitoring outputs from playback while recording. Consumer tape machines could not do this, not designed to be that flexible. Look out for an Akai or Revox next.

if I understand this correctly I can use the radio/micro connection as a input and for the LOUDSP I need to solder a couple of wires so that I can send the output of the tape machine in to my mixer.
Nope. You have not read a single answer here.

Loudspeaker outputs are too loud and wrong impedance. You'll pump 5 watt into a line input and blow up the mixer
Mic input should be avoided for line signals as well.

The din plug labelled "radio" is all you need: stereo inputs & outputs in a single connector.

The radio served as amp and input switch.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Image
My MusicCalc is back online!!

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VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
8514 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:05 am

Coincidentally I came across this the other day.

http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/4-cha ... oject/4064

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
23104 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:39 am

BertKoor wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:22 pm
Nope. You have not read a single answer here.
Same issue in the OPs mixer thread ... :shrug:

LETHWOLF
KVRer
7 posts since 4 Jul, 2018

Re: Tape recorder conection error

Post Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:25 pm

Nope. You have not read a single answer here.
Yoo bear with me I'm new to this stuff nobody mentioned anything about blowing up speakers. Just that signal would be crappy. I don't mind crappy. It could be a nice effect, maybe something I could use.
And because I misunderstand something said doesn't mean I did not read it. My understanding of the LOUDSP was that the signal will be hot but I figured if I would manage my levels that wouldn't be a issue.
The machine needs separate recording & playback heads and monitoring outputs from playback while recording. Consumer tape machines could not do this

What do you mean by separate, aren't the recording & playback heads already separated? And is the RADIO output also the same as a playback output?

Anyway I just recently stated getting into tape machine I bought this machine to get a bit familiar with working with one. Turns out the motor might be brooking of this machine, its not turning on right know.

I was looking into Revox before but because of the price and basically no knowledge on how they sound like I decided to go for a much cheaper option so that I can start learning how to use one.

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