Best Master/Slave setup for demanding orchestral projects? Advice Needed!

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 22 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:45 am

Thanks Kaine,

This is all very detailed and super interesting, I'm learning a lot, so thank you!

Since I've decided anyway that I want to test this master/slave thing with Vienna, I'm gonna buy the slave...Hopefully, that will solve most of my issues, together with SSD and samples being loaded/processed on the slave.

Pictus chimed in in this thread as well, saying that a ASUS® PRIME X299-A motherboard would not work allow the i9-7960X cpu to work properly, because it doesn't have enough VRM power.
Other choices I'm left with from the store are:

- Asus Rog Strix X299-E - Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme - Gigabyte X299 UD4 PRO

Any of these would work/give justice to the i9 processor?

Thanks for all the details on the psu, now it all makes sense to me!



Kaine wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:43 am
Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:10 pm
A friend of mine advised getting at least a 750W power supply instead of 500W. Is it more a matter of Wattage or pins/plugs? Power supplies find me as a total noob in the subject....
You could get away with a 500w on paper although higher wattage tends to mean the fan will spin up only at higher loads (most switch off under 50% load) and it means you shouldn't have it spinning most of the time, so nice and silent and possibly why your friend suggested it.

You also don't tend to find many PSU's under 750W coming with 8+4's however, so in this instance, it's inadvertently wattage + pins.

3 ranges I tend to favour.
Cheapish = Seasonic Focus Plus Platinum
Mid-range = Dark Power Pro
All out = Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum.

The higher the efficiency, the less wasted power and heat loss. The Seasonics have a switch to jump between hybrid and full mode (hybrid is as I discussed up top), whereas the Bequiets are using their own fans on aggressively low fan curves which are just decent low noise solutions anyhow and all three should offer twin ATX connections.

If you're looking to stick with Corsair, I think the RMx 750 should have it covered, as well as units from the AX range.
Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:10 pm
He also advised an AMD graphic card, because it causes less driver problems which slow down the DAW (Cubase in my case).
Do you know any good AMD usable in this environment, to run up to 2 monitors on the slave?
It doesn't slow down the system, the complaint is that they'll spike the driver every few mins briefly, although the spike they throw out the is about 35% of the total DPC load capability. The reason it doesn't overly concern me with DPC in this instance is that It takes a 101% load to run the risk of anything happening and it's more critical over time whereas quick sharp spikes tend to not really impact it, unless there are other problem drivers already in there.

Still, my Nvidia preference largely comes down to CUDA support for video editing duties or largely work outside of audio editing. If you've no need for it, then grab the ATI regardless. Although, that leads me to the other problem I have with ATI which is the fact they seem to have given up on passive cards. The last ones that appeared widely were the 230/250's and they no longer have current driver support they are that old and I've been asking about new passives from team Red for ages now.

They've started to adopt fan profiling and creating hybrid cards (spin up only under heavy load), although they are a few generations behind Nvidia with this and their fan scaling hasn't been as smooth in previous testing, although this could have changed as I haven't been paying attention as much recently to current cards. I'd love to see a fully passive or cheap semi passive option appear from them again through.

Any card out there currently can do 2 screens though, so that at least is the easy answer.
I'll look into some software to monitor cores separately, thanks. The Activity Monitor told me that CPU reached something between 300-400% peak (100 = one core used fully, 200 = two cores used fully, etc...) so in theory, I had still 1-2 cores of headroom, right?
Nope, that's a problem.

You can't split a channel chain, it's just too inefficient and time-consuming to do within the restricted audio buffer cycles you're working with. So, say you have 10 cores, it'll fire 10 channels at 10 cores in one shot, process them and as each one finishes in turn, it'll then call for more data and another track is submitted to the CPU for processing.

If all the channels are processed before the cycle completes and the next cycle begins then all is right in the world.

If one of the channels can't finish in time, then it crackles... and as we know, there is no such thing as "a little crackle" in audio. As such, that means if one channel overloads a single core, then the end result is one that you wouldn't be wanting.

User avatar
KVRian
571 posts since 21 Aug, 2017 from Brasil

Post Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:17 am

Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:55 am
Hey Picts thank you so much for the hardware advices! I’ve gone step-by-step following your advices, but I’m kind of limited by the fact that, having zero experience in assembling myself, I’ll use PC Specialist website (they assemble, and are in UK, which means zero import duties for me, and they have lowest prices). They don’t have all the parts you suggested. 
Would you help me to understand if any of their options are valid as well? When/If you have time :P
You are welcome!
They offer as alternative motherboards:

- Asus Rog Strix X299-E
- Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme (expensive…worth?)
- Gigabyte X299 UD4 PRO

I’ve read online after a quick research that the Rampage VI is very good to work with a i9-7960X. Some others said it caused problems (not in a audio prod. environment though)
Would any other of those in the list above be on par or better than the one you adviced, VRM-wise? Or would these all be insufficient and not give justice to the processor I’m buying?
The Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme is too expensive...
Buy the ASUS PRIME X299-A and talk with the assembling guys to make sure there is a FAN blowing air over the motherboard heatsink.
This way you be able to run all the cores at the same speed +- like in Kaine's test http://www.scanproaudio.info/2017/10/30 ... h-testing/
For DAW workloads the slower CPU core may set the system pace, I mean the slowest core may hinder the faster ones, so you want to run all the cores to the same speed, +- 4.1GHz.
Graphic cards:

Since I’d like to go AMD because their drivers cause less latency/problems in music prod. environments, I was looking at AMDs they have:

- AMD Radeon Pro WX 2100 / WX 3100 / WX4100 / WX5100 / WX7100 / WX9100

Is any on these good? They only have DP connectors, can I always use DP to HDMI adapters to use any monitor, or would that cause problems?
They are not silent cards, buy the Nvidia.
Power Supply:

They only have Corsair. Would a Corsair RMx series 850W or 1000W be good/similar to the one you advised?
The Corsair RMx series 850W is ok.
SSD Drives:

Is it better to split libraries on 2 x 2T ssd disks, or all together on one 4TB disk?
I prefer just one 4TB, but the 2 x 2TB is a lot cheaper...
Gigabit Port:

Do I need to install any Gigabit port, or it comes inside any motherboard? (Sorry for my ignorance on this subject!) 
On the website there’s the option to add an integrated “GoLAN“ Gigabit Lan port….do I need one for connecting Master and slave, or I use the one on the motherboard?

French website: 

I’m an italian living in France, too. Could you tell me which was your website? DO they send the pc already assembled and ready to use?
Just use the one from the motherboard.

KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 22 Oct, 2018

Post Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:51 am

Thanks Pictu!

I thought that the Noctua would have taken care of cooliing the cpu?

When I added the ASUS PRIME X299-A to partspicker website together with the i9 cpu, there was a conflict alert because of cooling, if I remember well. But then I added a Noctua to the parts list, and the alert went away.

Also, this online website states that the ASUS PRIME X299-A is compatible with the i9. (And there’s a compulsory field to fill in to pick a cooler, like the Noctua)

Does this mean that there’s compatibility, but all in all it’s not the best choice? Or would the Noctua cooling solve any problem and let the cpu work properly?

Also, I would be up to spend the money for the Rampage. Do you think it would make the difference, in terms of cpu performance and overall stability?

Thanks for taking the time to help! I should put names of KVR people in this thread on my pc once it’ll be assembled :D

Pictus wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:17 am
Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:55 am
Hey Picts thank you so much for the hardware advices! I’ve gone step-by-step following your advices, but I’m kind of limited by the fact that, having zero experience in assembling myself, I’ll use PC Specialist website (they assemble, and are in UK, which means zero import duties for me, and they have lowest prices). They don’t have all the parts you suggested. 
Would you help me to understand if any of their options are valid as well? When/If you have time :P
You are welcome!
They offer as alternative motherboards:

- Asus Rog Strix X299-E
- Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme (expensive…worth?)
- Gigabyte X299 UD4 PRO

I’ve read online after a quick research that the Rampage VI is very good to work with a i9-7960X. Some others said it caused problems (not in a audio prod. environment though)
Would any other of those in the list above be on par or better than the one you adviced, VRM-wise? Or would these all be insufficient and not give justice to the processor I’m buying?
The Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme is too expensive...
Buy the ASUS PRIME X299-A and talk with the assembling guys to make sure there is a FAN blowing air over the motherboard heatsink.
This way you be able to run all the cores at the same speed +- like in Kaine's test http://www.scanproaudio.info/2017/10/30 ... h-testing/
For DAW workloads the slower CPU core may set the system pace, I mean the slowest core may hinder the faster ones, so you want to run all the cores to the same speed, +- 4.1GHz.
Graphic cards:

Since I’d like to go AMD because their drivers cause less latency/problems in music prod. environments, I was looking at AMDs they have:

- AMD Radeon Pro WX 2100 / WX 3100 / WX4100 / WX5100 / WX7100 / WX9100

Is any on these good? They only have DP connectors, can I always use DP to HDMI adapters to use any monitor, or would that cause problems?
They are not silent cards, buy the Nvidia.
Power Supply:

They only have Corsair. Would a Corsair RMx series 850W or 1000W be good/similar to the one you advised?
The Corsair RMx series 850W is ok.
SSD Drives:

Is it better to split libraries on 2 x 2T ssd disks, or all together on one 4TB disk?
I prefer just one 4TB, but the 2 x 2TB is a lot cheaper...
Gigabit Port:

Do I need to install any Gigabit port, or it comes inside any motherboard? (Sorry for my ignorance on this subject!) 
On the website there’s the option to add an integrated “GoLAN“ Gigabit Lan port….do I need one for connecting Master and slave, or I use the one on the motherboard?

French website: 

I’m an italian living in France, too. Could you tell me which was your website? DO they send the pc already assembled and ready to use?
Just use the one from the motherboard.

User avatar
KVRian
571 posts since 21 Aug, 2017 from Brasil

Post Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:32 pm

Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:51 am
Thanks Pictu!
I am glad to help!
I thought that the Noctua would have taken care of cooliing the cpu?
The Noctua NH-D15 will, you do not live in a hot place.
When I added the ASUS PRIME X299-A to partspicker website together with the i9 cpu, there was a conflict alert because of cooling, if I remember well. But then I added a Noctua to the parts list, and the alert went away.

Also, this online website states that the ASUS PRIME X299-A is compatible with the i9. (And there’s a compulsory field to fill in to pick a cooler, like the Noctua)

Does this mean that there’s compatibility, but all in all it’s not the best choice? Or would the Noctua cooling solve any problem and let the cpu work properly?
What some site thinks I do not know, but there is no compatibility
problem with ASUS PRIME X299-A and Noctua NH-D15.
Also, I would be up to spend the money for the Rampage. Do you think it would make the difference, in terms of cpu performance and overall stability?
For DAW works and CPU core(all cores) speeds no higher than 4.1GHz will be ok.
The heatsink in the Prime X299-A is crap, just make sure there is
a fan blowing air over it and will be fine.

Thanks for taking the time to help! I should put names of KVR people in this thread on my pc once it’ll be assembled :D
And if does not work, make a voodoo doll. :lol:
Image

KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 22 Oct, 2018

Post Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:20 am

Thanks again Pictus.

Right now, after having done some more research, I'm more oriented to this configuration instead:

CPU: i9 7960 (as before)
Motherboard: Rampage VI (better heatsink?)
Cooling system: Corsair H80i V2 Hydro Cooler (with PCS fans Liquid Series)

This is a bit more expensive, but should solve any overheating/compatibility issue right?

I don't mind spending this extra, if it works efficiently.

Thanks a lot.




Pictus wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:32 pm
Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:51 am
Thanks Pictu!
I am glad to help!
I thought that the Noctua would have taken care of cooliing the cpu?
The Noctua NH-D15 will, you do not live in a hot place.
When I added the ASUS PRIME X299-A to partspicker website together with the i9 cpu, there was a conflict alert because of cooling, if I remember well. But then I added a Noctua to the parts list, and the alert went away.

Also, this online website states that the ASUS PRIME X299-A is compatible with the i9. (And there’s a compulsory field to fill in to pick a cooler, like the Noctua)

Does this mean that there’s compatibility, but all in all it’s not the best choice? Or would the Noctua cooling solve any problem and let the cpu work properly?
What some site thinks I do not know, but there is no compatibility
problem with ASUS PRIME X299-A and Noctua NH-D15.
Also, I would be up to spend the money for the Rampage. Do you think it would make the difference, in terms of cpu performance and overall stability?
For DAW works and CPU core(all cores) speeds no higher than 4.1GHz will be ok.
The heatsink in the Prime X299-A is crap, just make sure there is
a fan blowing air over it and will be fine.

Thanks for taking the time to help! I should put names of KVR people in this thread on my pc once it’ll be assembled :D
And if does not work, make a voodoo doll. :lol:
Image

KVRAF
1928 posts since 4 Nov, 2004 from Manchester

Post Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:02 am

Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:20 am
Right now, after having done some more research, I'm more oriented to this configuration instead:

CPU: i9 7960 (as before)
Motherboard: Rampage VI (better heatsink?)
Cooling system: Corsair H80i V2 Hydro Cooler (with PCS fans Liquid Series)

This is a bit more expensive, but should solve any overheating/compatibility issue right?
Part picker can give an "incompability" listing for a number of reasons. If there was another cooler in the originally, then it can flag if the cooler isn't powerful enough, or if it might perhaps block your memory or PCIe slots.

I've been using the Prime Deluxe board for i9's where I can and I've had not had reported failures, although I aim to keep that airflowing where I can. The Rampage is the next step up, has better cooling and is only £20 more, so if you're happy to spend it then I would say go for it.

Regarding Pictus's crucial to note comments on the air flow and the VRM's, the waterloop aio isn't quite as suitable for acheiving that.

The VRM's control and moderate the voltage to the silicon. The harder a chip is pushed, the harder those VRM's need to work. Up until the last few generations, nobody has really been giving it a whole world of thought outside of the board designers themselves, but we've seen as the wattage draws have risen sharply, so has VRM stability through heat issues.

Water loop AIO's are great for pushing the chip. The more cores you have on the die, the more raw speed you extract from it, ultimately the more energy it needs and the more heat it generates that needs removing.

The problem is, stability wise, it's not the final decider. You can give most chips a solid overclock these days without really thinking about it, but if the VRM's are overloaded... well, it won't end well.

The VRM's are around your CPU socket and historically they got away with little to no metal work, but relyed upon the CPU cooler and case fans to shift enough air flow to keep them cool. Now, we have water loops and still have the case fans, but your not pulling as much air through that part of the case anymore leading to hot spots. One solution is to stick on another fan to cool just the VRM's (solutions sometimes do this from the factory, otherwise you could mod it) and some AIO's even feature a fan mounted to the CPU block itself which will blow upwards on to them.

So, yes, the H80i may cool your CPU really well, but it won't help those VRM's qute as effectively. The whacking great big fan on the Nutua along with a decent rear fan will get you the extra airflow with upside of being quieter than the H80i's smaller fans and personally would be my preference out of the two for this job.

User avatar
KVRian
571 posts since 21 Aug, 2017 from Brasil

Post Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:36 am

Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:20 am
Thanks again Pictus.
You are welcome.
Right now, after having done some more research, I'm more oriented to this configuration instead:

CPU: i9 7960 (as before)
Motherboard: Rampage VI (better heatsink?)
Stronger/more efficient VRM and better heatsink.
Cooling system: Corsair H80i V2 Hydro Cooler (with PCS fans Liquid Series)
The H80i GT is too noisy and in Quiet Mode will have worst performance than the Noctua NH-15.
This is a bit more expensive, but should solve any overheating/compatibility issue right?

I don't mind spending this extra, if it works efficiently.
If the difference is small get the Rampage VI, but not the Corsair H80i V2.

KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 22 Oct, 2018

Post Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:45 pm

Thanks Pictus.

Noctua NH-15 is not available on the builder's website, unfortunately.

I've also read about a benchmark done to overclock the i9 that I chose, they used the Corsair H115i (watercooling) which is also the most expensive available on this website where I'm planning to buy.

I hope that would be enough? Apart from the H115i, which would be an improvement over the previous I proposed anyway, I couldn't find anything better on that website where I'm preparing the build.

Thanks!



Pictus wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:36 am
Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:20 am
Thanks again Pictus.
You are welcome.
Right now, after having done some more research, I'm more oriented to this configuration instead:

CPU: i9 7960 (as before)
Motherboard: Rampage VI (better heatsink?)
Stronger/more efficient VRM and better heatsink.
Cooling system: Corsair H80i V2 Hydro Cooler (with PCS fans Liquid Series)
The H80i GT is too noisy and in Quiet Mode will have worst performance than the Noctua NH-15.
This is a bit more expensive, but should solve any overheating/compatibility issue right?

I don't mind spending this extra, if it works efficiently.
If the difference is small get the Rampage VI, but not the Corsair H80i V2.

User avatar
KVRian
571 posts since 21 Aug, 2017 from Brasil

Post Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:36 pm

Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:45 pm
Thanks Pictus.

I hope that would be enough? Apart from the H115i, which would be an improvement over the previous I proposed anyway, I couldn't find anything better on that website where I'm preparing the build.
Glad to help, what the options are?

KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 22 Oct, 2018

Post Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:14 pm

Hey Pictus,

Thanks once again!
Basically, the options on the website are these ones:
https://imgur.com/1RpHINU
(I chose the last one, the H115i)

I hope that list has something valid in it.

Thanks a lot.



Pictus wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:36 pm
Grape_Brotherhood wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:45 pm
Thanks Pictus.

I hope that would be enough? Apart from the H115i, which would be an improvement over the previous I proposed anyway, I couldn't find anything better on that website where I'm preparing the build.
Glad to help, what the options are?

User avatar
KVRian
571 posts since 21 Aug, 2017 from Brasil

Post Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:32 am

Sadly, no...
Stay with the H115i or you will regret...

KVRer

Topic Starter

28 posts since 22 Oct, 2018

Post Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:37 am

Okay I'm gonna go with the H115i. Thanks.
I'll ask the builder anyway to make sure its sufficient. I'm using a large case (BeQuiet Dark Base Pro 900) which hopefully will help too.
Gonna make the order by tomorrow or tuesday....fingers crossed, and thank you so much!

Pictus wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:32 am
Sadly, no...
Stay with the H115i or you will regret...

Return to “Computer Setup and System Configuration”