Roland Cloud

[Orbit-50]

All valid opinions guys.

@rod_zero, I'm jealous of your System 8. Beautiful board. I've been hemming and hawing about getting one to supplement my FA-06 and TR-8S but I'm mostly ITB more these days so I just haven't pulled the trigger as of yet. I wan't to get one before they are discontinued. Also, as you said the System 100 plug is unique and I'm drawn to it more than I thought I'd be.

@ghettosynth, it's actually $215.40 if paid outright for the year.

[ghettosynth]

All valid opinions guys.

@ghettosynth, it's actually $215.40 if paid outright for the year.

Fair enough. If you're going to compare to paying non-subscription then it's totally fair to compare the full annual price. Still, if I'm not mistaken, that's based on the still discounted price, no? That is, at some point they're hoping to charge more per month, right? Now, I know, inflation, everything goes up, etc. However, the pricing constraints are different in a subscription setting, particularly where there is a limited monopoly as there is here. You guys even buy into it, you want "authentic" Roland and they know that.

Nonetheless, let's compare. I spent $400 for komplete 5 in 2009. Since then I've spent $100 each on Komplete 7 and 9, and then recently, spent $300 on Komplete 11 Ultimate. So that's a total of $900 over about a ten year period.

I almost certainly won't upgrade either until 13 at the earliest, so, to make the math easy, let's just call that ten years of Komplete even though it will actually be more than ten years by the time I spend more money.

So that's $90/year for Komplete. KU11 has 87 instruments so, if we project my past performance as a reasonable average for the future, which is a reasonable estimate, then I'm paying just over $1 per year per product and if I stop updating for whatever reason, I still have all 87 products. (really it's closer to 100 because I have some products that I still use that are not in the current Komplete) That calculus doesn't even include the value that I get from having two of the industry's leading platforms for third party instruments. In fact, it doesn't even include the 100 or so instruments and effects that come with Reaktor, something that I value quite heavily in my work.

So, there you go, Roland, at a discounted intro price, is more than twice as much per year than Komplete and includes far fewer products. Moreover, when you stop the subscription, you have absolutely nothing except your memories of how awesome they were.

Now, what can you do with that remaining $125? Well, over ten years that's $1250. I've spent about $350 on Uhe instruments in almost the same time frame, which, to my ears, are close enough to a "Roland sound" that I don't care about the minute differences. Again, keep in mind that I own a LOT of vintage Roland hardware so it's not like I don't have the real thing to compare it with. For me, it's not so much about how close it is but how much value the difference in technology brings. I don't care about having an SH101 in a plugin, I do care about having good filter models. The rest has probably paid for some of the best bundles in the industry, e.g., Eventide, Waves Horizon, etc.

When you don't have your money tied up in a subscription you are free to take advantage of sales. Companies know this, they know that they are going to have to compete every single time for your dollars if you don't buy into the subscription model.

Now, there are some advantages to the consumer to subscriptions, certainly, the issue of not having to worry about updates is real. Then again, if you choose your vendors carefully, e.g., Uhe, that's not that much of a concern. However, to the extent that it is a concern, it's still cheaper to just pay for the updates than to subscribe.

If you really want the Roland plugins, you pay for the subscription, but any attempt to try to argue that it's a better "deal" than buying software outright is almost certainly going to involve some bullshit math. We aren't there yet and I don't think that we'll come close in the next decade or so.

[SLiC]

This is turning making music in to an accountant course, music isn’t a value proposition to me....if I like it and it inspires me I buy it, no calculator needed

[ghettosynth]

This is turning making music in to an accountant course, music isn’t a value proposition to me....if I like it and it inspires me I buy it, no calculator needed

Roland is counting on your inability to do a trivial post-hoc value analysis. That's how grifters have been taking your money since the beginning of time. You point has no teeth, you can't justify a lesser value by arguing that you don't care about value. That just means that the conversation isn't important to you. I suspect that you're not being entirely truthful though.

I suspect that most of us have purchased gear on impulse, we probably regret some and don't care that much about others. Truth be told, I bought K5 on impulse. But to say that some amount of money doesn't matter to you, and that's all that you're saying, I doubt, for example, that if you were inspired by Abbey Road Studios that you could afford to purchase it, that doesn't negate the argument that the same amount of money matters to others, nor does it negate the fact that others may prefer to get more value for that money.

[BMoore]

Why is Komplete the benchmark for anything, really. It's no all that.

[Orbit-50]

Still, if I'm not mistaken, that's based on the still discounted price, no? That is, at some point they're hoping to charge more per month, right?

1.Yes
2. Good question. I actually wouldn't think so, but who knows with the way the world is these days.

Now, I know, inflation, everything goes up, etc. However, the pricing constraints are different in a subscription setting, particularly where there is a limited monopoly as there is here. You guys even buy into it, you want "authentic" Roland and they know that.

You are correct. This was the only reason for me to buckle, and subscribe. Call me a fool, but I have a very sentimental tie to all that is Roland. They've served me well for what would be about 2/3 of my lifetime.

Lots of maths and stuff...

I totally get what you're saying, but for me, money is never an obstacle. It comes and it goes. I never look at it from an accountants point of view. The value in any software for me, is quality, and do I feel inspired to use it.

If you really want the Roland plugins, you pay for the subscription, but any attempt to try to argue that it's a better "deal" than buying software outright is almost certainly going to involve some bullshit math. We aren't there yet and I don't think that we'll come close in the next decade or so.

Now, I really don't want anyone to think that I'd rather subscribe than to buy my licenses outright. That's not how I feel about it at all, but I truly can stand my ground on the fact that, for what one is paying for the Roland Cloud stuff right now, it is a fantastic deal for what you're getting immediately. If the "Yours" program kick in, then all the better. For now, I render my tracks, and if the Roland Cloud takes a crap, I will sadly move on.

[ghettosynth]

Why is Komplete the benchmark for anything, really. It's no all that.

Well, that's a matter of opinion. Komplete is certainly a value benchmark, however. Even without the Roland comparison the per/product cost with Komplete is fairly low.

But compare with whatever bundles or products that you like. For example, I also compared with Uhe which, by almost universal consensus, is "all that."

For me, the bottom line is that, for me, there are much better ways to spend $215/year than on any one vendor's subscription.

[zzz00m]

Well the JV-1080 is the only Roland virtual instrument I would be interested in owning. Considering selling my vintage JV-1080 rack unit, and subscribing to the cloud for a year to claim the virtual version as a replacement. The economics of that should work out, I think?

[BMoore]

Why is Komplete the benchmark for anything, really. It's no all that.

Well, that's a matter of opinion. Komplete is certainly a value benchmark, however. Even without the Roland comparison the per/product cost with Komplete is fairly low.

But compare with whatever bundles or products that you like. For example, I also compared with Uhe which, by almost universal consensus, is "all that."

For me, the bottom line is that, for me, there are much better ways to spend $215/year than on any one vendor's subscription.

Value benchmark? For who?
And U-he is certainly not all that if you need Roland products.

[rod_zero]

Even If Komplete was 240 USD per year I would subscribe over Roland cloud for sure.

Maybe Roland should just license the plugouts to NI so a competent developer can bring them to 2018 GUI, Preset System and CPU performance standards.

[Orbit-50]

Well the JV-1080 is the only Roland virtual instrument I would be interested in owning. Considering selling my vintage JV-1080 rack unit, and subscribing to the cloud for a year to claim the virtual version as a replacement. The economics of that should work out, I think?

Don't you dare sell your Super JV. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking about it.

[Orbit-50]

...Preset System and CPU performance standards.

I've omitted GUI because it's gotten a hell of a lot better than it was. The browser system can definitely use some more thought.

[zzz00m]

Well the JV-1080 is the only Roland virtual instrument I would be interested in owning. Considering selling my vintage JV-1080 rack unit, and subscribing to the cloud for a year to claim the virtual version as a replacement. The economics of that should work out, I think?

Don't you dare sell your Super JV. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking about it.

LOL, I hear ya! But I'm tempted...

[crystalmsc]

But I'm tempted...

Just be prepared, since the plugin sounds different, with less charm and warmth of the original. It's more like the XV-5080/Integra version, which is brighter sounding, while the original is clearly darker. I wish they will provide a solution for this. Would love to see a true JV-1080 with the SR-JV80 boards. Let the XV-5080 an the SRXs becoming another product. Still keep my JV-1080 with all boards because of this.

[zzz00m]

But I'm tempted...

Just be prepared, since the plugin sounds different, with less charm and warmth of the original. It's more like the XV-5080/Integra version, which is brighter sounding, while the original is clearly darker. I wish they will provide a solution for this. Would love to see a true JV-1080 with the SR-JV80 boards. Let the XV-5080 an the SRXs becoming another product. Still keep my JV-1080 with all boards because of this.

That would be something to consider. I'm not surprised that there are differences. Never used anything from the XV-5080 generation, so cannot compare that sound with the JV line.

I'm just trying to move away from hardware and go 100% in the box these days with virtual instruments. I have hundreds of plugins now and rarely ever power on the hardware anymore. There are times that I could be more inspired to load a JV-1080 plugin and audition a few patches, than power on a rack and load some sysex...

I realize that is a compromise, but I have considered the workflow improvements, and the reduction in physical space requirements as advantages.