Advice wanted: I'm over-thinking bass phasing issues from parallel effecting / mix 0-100% / sends and returns...

[dark water]

Hello everyone,

I'm seeking your technical advice, as I'm currently having a brain fart about the possibility of (sub)bass phasing problems (signal reduction/cancellation etc) caused by:

a) parallel compressing (or other parallel effecting) two signals which contain sub-bass and bass information;

b) inserting onto channels, plugins which offer a 0 to 100% 'mix' control dial - will placing this anywhere between 1% - 99% caused undesirable phasing issues for bass heavy instruments;

c) sending a bass heavy instrument to an aux for distortion/saturation (for example) and then returning it to the instrument channel.



I appreciate that phasing problems are affected by latency or delay issues, and that two copies of the same signal slightly misaligned in time can cause signal reductions etc.

Also, that some very minor phasing problems are perhaps not the worst problem in the world: as long as the song sounds reasonably good in a trusted mixing environment then I doubt anyone will notice too much.

Finally, I realize that it is difficult to give advice about these matters when a lot depends upon the specific plugins used, the range of frequencies involved, the differences between mixing on a hardware board vs using software plugins, and the subjective working processes undertaken by one musician.


However, given that I've now got myself confused about these matters, I'd be interested to hear your experiences and take on whether a bass heavy element (eg, a bass guitar) can suffer phasing problems from parallel processing, using plugin with a '0-100% mix dial' and using send/return auxes.

Many thanks in advance,
DW

[vurt]

are you saying you are experiencing such issues?
or are you wondering if such issues will occur?

[dark water]

Watcha Vurt,

I haven't experienced any major project-knackering issues of bass phasing problems yet (although I have on a few times had to check and then adjust for some minor loss of signal due to phasing alignment issues).

However, I'm trying to more clearly understand the expertise and results of parallel processing and mix 0-100% dial adjustments on bass instruments, just so that I can avoid any problems which I might not even know I am currently making!

ps, I had a look at Gearslutz for their thinking on it too, but it wasn't a particularly clear-headed thread over there.

[PurpleSunray]

DAWs do delay compensation to avoid exactly that.
Simple version: if the plugins on send channel introduce latency, the DAW will try to make sure others are deleay by same amount so phase matches again.
Full version: https://ask.audio/articles/understandin ... mpensation

[BertKoor]

a) parallel compressing (or other parallel effecting) two signals which contain sub-bass and bass information;

You should notice phase issues directly if and when they occur.

b) inserting onto channels, plugins which offer a 0 to 100% 'mix' control dial - will placing this anywhere between 1% - 99% caused undesirable phasing issues for bass heavy instruments;

Same as a) but you should file a bug report to the developer. This should never be happening!

[dark water]

Excellent - many thanks PurpleSunray and BertKoor for those clear answers


In addition to my DAW software (Ableton and Reaper), I have also recently bought a Soundcraft Signature MTK 22 analog console board with FX (delay, reverb, phaser etc) on its channels.
However it also has hybrid functions in terms of connecting to software so that the console's faders are recognized in a DAW, and that audio tracks on the console can be routed through DAW software FX and then back into the console again via USB cable.

I imagine that I might have to be additionally careful in terms of thinking about latency, and therefore possibly phasing issues, if I send a (bass heavy) audio track on the console through a DAW software FX and then back into the console again via USB.


Whilst I can of course print off all audio tracks and then just line them up prior to a studio mixdown, perhaps I might have to watch out for any latency induced phasing issues if I am using the console purely as a live mixing instrument (ala King Tubby and dub reggae) instead?


Finally, in terms of purely using the hardware console by itself, and routing audio tracks through its send/return auxes for hardware reverbs etc, I imagine that latency issues won't arise in the same way that they would (in theory) for software etc.

However, I'm happy to stand corrected with regards to any of these.

Many thanks again in advance for your advice and input