Bitwig audio routing know-how limitations are ... severe.

[robbmonn]

In Ableton you can do a lot of nice things:

instrument on track 1, routed to master.
track 2 input set to track 1, monitor on, routed to track 4 (a submix)
track 3 input set to track 1, monitor on, hosting several effects, also routed to track 4 (submix)
track 4 mixes two inputs, output to master

send 1 hosts a tape delay and a subtle chorus. Tape delay feedback set to zero, chorus put inline with delay by activating send 1 (feedback) and sending signal back through. Output of send send to Track 5 (second submix)
send 2 hosts a reverb. Send 2 is sending signal to send 1 as well. Output is also set to Track 5.

I could go on. Basically in Ableton you are virtually unrestricted in how you route and monitor audio. It allows you to create feedback loops (which are VERY USEFUL if you know what you are doing... Eno/Lanois, etc) route tracks many to one, one to many and everything in between. You can monitor a track with another track and monitor the second track with another track, etc. In Bitwig you cannot monitor audio that comes from another track?! In Ableton you can introduce feedback in sends and across sends (totally key to dub production) and you can have submixes, ie, a track with several tracks routed to it that is not the master, but that you monitor. None of this is possible in Bitwig.

In Bitwig you simply cannot do most of this. Yes, you can create delays with plugin inline, yes there is an audio-sender plugin, but the lack of modular audio routing is a huge limitation.

I HATE that Bitwig supports MPE and Ableton doesn't and that Bitwig doesn't support flexible audio routing and Ableton does. Very frustrating.

[xbitz]

...and what's wrong with Audio-Receiver plugin (just because the setup above can be recreated with it...) ?

[brownerthanu]

+1 for Audio Receiver. It can do ridiculous audio routing tricks. Never tried it for feedback loops, though. Is it possible?

[sth]

Have you looked at the Track-level Input/Output dropdowns? I frequently output Tracks to other Tracks/Groups without the Audio Receiver Device. It will limit feedback-loops, but there's a post on here somewhere about a workaround to make them.

[ThomasHelzle]

I'm happy to totally disagree.

- With the Audio Receiver, you can pick audio from any point in your project, from very specific positions in any chain, from specific outputs of multiout VSTs and what have you. And since you can put those receivers everywhere (groups, layers etc.) you can basically transfer audio from everywhere to everywhere.

- Inside of groups you can have FX-tracks. All tracks inside the group or in groups nested deeper can send to those FX-tracks. And those group-FX-tracks can send to all FX-tracks above them and the global FX-tracks. This allows for some very flexible grouping and routing - heck, I do surround sound in Bitwig this way and it's actually easier as it ever was in Live.

- The only thing the developers of BWS decided to not allow is feedback. Yes I get why it can be cool to have in some situations but on the other hand, it can destroy equipment fast in the hand of the unaware.
But there are plugins that allow it like plogue bidule, so even that isn't a hard wall if you really need it. And several of the Bitwig devices, especially delays, have slots for having other plugins and devices in their feedback loops, so a lot can be done even with just factory tools.
And of course you can always use a physical feedback loop through an output of your interface and back in - which is what Eno etc. probably did in the first place

And since you can have any device in any order in BWS device chains, I normally need much less tracks than I did in Live back when I was still using it (Live 4-8).

So: Careful with that "not possible" meme.

And if something really is impossible, write a mail to support and make a feature request.

Cheers,

Tom

[antic604]

In Bitwig you simply cannot do most of this. Yes, you can create delays with plugin inline, yes there is an audio-sender plugin, but the lack of modular audio routing is a huge limitation.

Your knowledge of Bitwig seems to be severely limited...

[pdxindy]

What Tom said...

Plus, I'm glad there are no feedback loops allowed in Bitwig. Now, having said that, I love the sound of feedback in analog circuits. Plus in some analog modeled digital ones. But I thought it sounded pretty bad in Live (which I used up until v9.5 or so).

[justin3am]

I would certainly welcome a better method for creating feedback routing in Bitwig.
While it is totally possible to create arbitrary feedback loops in Bitwig (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=259&t=511091), I do wish it were possible to do so, just with the Audio Receiver or with track inputs. I used to make complex feedback paths in Live frequently and I do so with Bitwig as well, it just has to be done in a different way.

Apart from that, I would say that audio routing in Bitwig is superior to Live. Not only can you extract an audio stream from almost any place in the signal path, you can inject that audio back into any point in the signal path. Audio Receivers combined with FX Layers become a very powerful tool for sub-mixes. And then Bitwig has nested groups which can contains FX Tracks.

[xbitz]

feeback loop mac, something like this
https://youtu.be/DpRvRwOS0aw
needs a 2 (connected to able the feedbacking)virtual soundcard, and a system level aggregated device to able to assign both cards to Bitwig
Loopback audio device, https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/
Combine multiple audio interfaces by creating an Aggregate Device, https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202000

... and some manul time correction at the end ... the feedbacked audio track uses own dedicated virtual soundcard so it not affects the other tracks

[mholloway]

The OP is simply and severely ignorant of various Bitwig features, plain and simple. He doesn't seem to even be aware of the Audio Receiver's existence. I think everything he says "can't be done" can, in fact, be done. Hopefully he reads this, and learns!

[antic604]

He doesn't seem to even be aware of the Audio Receiver's existence. I think everything he says "can't be done" can, in fact, be done. Hopefully he reads this, and learns!

Worse, I don't think he's even aware of input & output dropdowns for every track, because that is how those things are done in Live. There's no (native, at least) Audio Receiver equivalent.

[Hez]

The only thing I really miss in Bitwig is being able to send the output of a return track to another return track. I'd often cascade delays into reverbs this way, allowing you to treat delay throws with the same spatialisation as the source track.

Having written that, I've never actually tried with an audio receiver....

[xbitz]

^^^ working (only the feedbacking isn't allowed) even works from the group tracks (send outs can be used serial/parallel etc.) so if have some common fx plugin it should be put to the group tracks after the receivers

[robbmonn]

ok, ok, I know that I'm a noob. Thank you very much for your patience.

While I have the focus let me riddle you this:

Augustus Loop is an excellent looper plugin -- a great part of it is that it has a send/return external loop... so you can put fx in the feedback loop. If I could use this it would obviate some of my need for sends that can feed back.

so: track 1 has an instrument and an instance of Augustus Loop on it.
track 2 has an audio receiver on it, listening to Augustus loop output 3/4.
So the way to handle side chain input in Bitwig is to go to Augustus loop, side chain input and select track 2, right? I can't see any other way to do it. In the side chain input drop down there is no track 2. Bitwig will not allow me to select that track because it has an Audio Receiver device sourced in the current track. I can add another track and it will allow it to be side chained.

If I set the side chain up first then I cannot select the plugins outputs in the Audio Receiver.

So this would seem to mean that I cannot use this plugin's fx loop in Bitwig, right?


So I think that you have answered my concerns but for two:

1. FX track configs where fx track 1 can send to fx track 2 are not allowed.
2. round-trip routing of audio from and back to a plugin (such as the fx loop described above) can't be done.

and a sort of 3: Routing of many tracks to one for a submix is handled by either fx tracks, which have same routing limitation or by setting up an fx layer of Audio Receiver devices, which breaks workflow to some degree (because that fx layer device is not represented in the mixer.)
I get the audio receiver paradigm (I coded one for myself in max4live actually) but the reality that routing like this can't be done by the mixer is meaningful -- it is good to see that it is possible.

[robbmonn]

But, again! Thanks for the attention.