Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR no longer again!

Buy and sell, post special offers, group buys, etc. NOT product announcements.
nathanj
KVRist
157 posts since 23 Mar, 2013

Post Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:13 am

It depends on the company and if they offer big sales. Pianoteq doesn’t and their licences become NFR after one sale and they still retain a significant value.

If PA didn’t offer such drastic discounts their plugs would probably retail for a lot more even with the NFR. It’s just that so many people have their plugs that the resale value is diminished. I personally prefer this as I can get good quality plugins are very reasonable prices.

woggle
KVRAF
2150 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:24 am

nathanj wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:13 am
It depends on the company and if they offer big sales. Pianoteq doesn’t and their licences become NFR after one sale and they still retain a significant value.

If PA didn’t offer such drastic discounts their plugs would probably retail for a lot more even with the NFR. It’s just that so many people have their plugs that the resale value is diminished. I personally prefer this as I can get good quality plugins are very reasonable prices.
mebbe - what do you think Pianoteq competes with tho (other than lots of different sample libraries in combination)

blue monk
KVRist
315 posts since 25 Mar, 2008

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:08 am

woggle wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:26 pm
selling a license that becomes NFR is very difficult - basically the price has to be in the "impulse range". I've had Cableguys Curve2 for sale a couple of times with no interest - it's a good synth, retails for $129 and is worth - dunno - as a sale because it is NFR. Same will be true for PA plugins - no matter the original price. It will be in the impulse buy range if you want to sell it later. That means the initial, first buyer, price has to come down if the plugin is competing against similar products. $300+ on a channel strip that might get you $50 on resale! Don't think so
Seems about right. If there was a sale, the maximum would probably be 50% of that sale price if it becomes NFR.
So far, I have kept 95% of plugins I bought (over 50% from developers directly). If you know that you can't resell, then you have to think twice.
A seller of a license might use the money to buy another plugin from a developer directly. I did.
The selling of second hand licenses also benefits the developers in these ways: People are more willing to buy directly from the developer and have extra money to buy more.

iftango
KVRist
94 posts since 14 Sep, 2006 from here and beyond

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:14 am

  • never do any sale and licenses can only be sold once before becoming NFR (Spectrasonics and Xfer)
  • never do any sale and licenses can be sold as many times as you wish with a $10 fee (ValhallaDSP)
  • never do any sale and licenses can be sold as many times as you wish with a $15 fee if sold in the first 9 months, free after (U-he)
  • keep abnormally expensive prices, do huge cheap as f*ck sales, ditch the NFR and maybe add a small transfer fee (Waves)

escalona
KVRist
153 posts since 16 Jan, 2018 from Portland, OR USA

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:15 pm

iftango wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:14 am
  • never do any sale and licenses can only be sold once before becoming NFR (Spectrasonics and Xfer)
  • never do any sale and licenses can be sold as many times as you wish with a $10 fee (ValhallaDSP)
  • never do any sale and licenses can be sold as many times as you wish with a $15 fee if sold in the first 9 months, free after (U-he)
  • keep abnormally expensive prices, do huge cheap as f*ck sales, ditch the NFR and maybe add a small transfer fee (Waves)
There is also one of my most respected companies, PSP Audioware, with reasonable prices (though I recognize a few plugins seem a bit high) and then sales every now and then and you can transfer licenses anytime with no fee. And exceptional quality in everything they make.

A related note. As an example, I bought BX Digital V3 during a sale for $99. I really liked it but after a little while I found other things that worked better for me. I sold the V3 here for about $50-$60. Had it become NFR, I would have never paid more than $20 for it, no matter how good it is. If that happened today, I wouldn't pay more than $50 for V3 new, honestly. I don't know if you all think the same or not. My point is, I am not hoping to make money out of buying and selling a plugin, but I do want to know that there is some residual value after I buy it. NFR policy kills that value immediately. In 40 years no one will be looking for vintage plugins...

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plexuss
KVRAF
2361 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:38 pm

escalona wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:15 pm
There is also one of my most respected companies, PSP Audioware, with reasonable prices (though I recognize a few plugins seem a bit high) and then sales every now and then and you can transfer licenses anytime with no fee. And exceptional quality in everything they make.
Except for PSP's iLoked products which will incur a $25US fee. But still. They do not become NFR which is the main sticking point with PA. :phones:

yehboy1
KVRist
88 posts since 13 Mar, 2017 from new orleans

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:43 pm

Imagine buying a hardware synth and Roland charging the consumer $20 to sell it and then forbidding the new owner from selling it. Yes, a plugin is a "license" but the absurdity is still somewhat relevant.

woggle
KVRAF
2150 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:53 pm

escalona wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:15 pm
iftango wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:14 am
  • never do any sale and licenses can only be sold once before becoming NFR (Spectrasonics and Xfer)
  • never do any sale and licenses can be sold as many times as you wish with a $10 fee (ValhallaDSP)
  • never do any sale and licenses can be sold as many times as you wish with a $15 fee if sold in the first 9 months, free after (U-he)
  • keep abnormally expensive prices, do huge cheap as f*ck sales, ditch the NFR and maybe add a small transfer fee (Waves)
There is also one of my most respected companies, PSP Audioware, with reasonable prices (though I recognize a few plugins seem a bit high) and then sales every now and then and you can transfer licenses anytime with no fee. And exceptional quality in everything they make.

A related note. As an example, I bought BX Digital V3 during a sale for $99. I really liked it but after a little while I found other things that worked better for me. I sold the V3 here for about $50-$60. Had it become NFR, I would have never paid more than $20 for it, no matter how good it is. If that happened today, I wouldn't pay more than $50 for V3 new, honestly. I don't know if you all think the same or not. My point is, I am not hoping to make money out of buying and selling a plugin, but I do want to know that there is some residual value after I buy it. NFR policy kills that value immediately. In 40 years no one will be looking for vintage plugins...
exactly - similar to what I mentioned earlier - NFR plugins become impulse buy prices on resale. The original first purchase item has to be something really special (or cheap) to warrant buying if it is going to become NFR if you need to sell it later. Otherwise buy similar from someone with a better resale policy.

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
2491 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Germany

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:49 am

Message from Dirk (PA) on Facebook:

LICENSE TRANSFERS / NFRs:
...............................................
The fact that we are currently giving out NFRs in many cases when licenses were supposed (and expected) to be transferred definitely is a mistake on our end, and we will fix this asap.
I personally apologize for the inconvenience and confusion this may have caused!
Weirdly enough, I couldn't even find out exactly who started this internally and how and when, but we'll fix it. For past and future transfers, of course.
Our support agents recently started to enforce a rule that was in place for a while in theory (according to our system & data analysis), but had not been applied in the past.
I only learned about this from you guys in this group raising concerns about this in this fb group, and while I didn't like the tone of every single reply to the related threads here, I do appreciate you guys pointing out what was a mistake indeed.
Glad we could catch it quickly this way, and we'll start to work on improving / correcting things right away. Thanks for reporting the mistake here!
We'll need some time now to change (back) the system, especially for automated license transfer, so please be patient with us.
But be assured that if you bought or will buy a second hand license it will be transferred as a full license, and you will be able to sell it again later as well.
In urgent cases please hit up our online support (only via the web site, not via facebook!), they will help you get full licenses in case you received an NFR by mistake.
Dirk / PA
PS: please feel free to share this info / message in other groups or forums as I won't do an "online tour" now to every forum and post out there. Thanks for your help!

Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

woggle
KVRAF
2150 posts since 24 Nov, 2012

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:00 am

quality response - has to be respected

iftango
KVRist
94 posts since 14 Sep, 2006 from here and beyond

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:19 am

martinjuenke wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:49 am
Message from Dirk (PA) on Facebook:
We'll need some time now to change (back) the system, especially for automated license transfer, so please be patient with us.
We won't see this appear straight away in our account.

Edit: added "Message from Dirk (PA) on Facebook:"
Last edited by iftango on Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
2491 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Germany

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:05 am

iftango wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:19 am
martinjuenke wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:49 am
We'll need some time now to change (back) the system, especially for automated license transfer, so please be patient with us.
We won't see this appear straight away in our account.
Just to avoid misunderstanding:
that’s not a direct quote of mine but the statement of PA...

Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

iftango
KVRist
94 posts since 14 Sep, 2006 from here and beyond

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR no longer again!

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:09 am

Corrected, sorry for that.

escalona
KVRist
153 posts since 16 Jan, 2018 from Portland, OR USA

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR no longer again!

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:34 am

I still think he needs a true PR/communication person to edit his posts... though I appreciate the message and the will to deal with and fix the problem, those things like "I didn't like the tone of every single reply to the related threads here" or "I won't do an "online tour" now to every forum and post out there" don´t really add any qualitative data to his otherwise satisfactory message... ughh...

sprnva
KVRian
1359 posts since 16 Jan, 2013

Re: Sellers of PA items: check your accounts if they are NFR now!

Post Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:53 am

yehboy1 wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:43 pm
Imagine buying a hardware synth and Roland charging the consumer $20 to sell it and then forbidding the new owner from selling it.
Don't give them any ideas.
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