Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3542 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:41 am

Really dumb question but why don't I see circle vsti's or triangle ones? or vst's with odd shapes that have no gui in the middle and see through. Even though it'd be ridiculous, it'd be different and isn't that a good thing to make others notice in synth land?
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DrGonzo
KVRAF
2103 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from A Swede Living in Budapest

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:49 am

Good question. The plugins for the old Creamware cards used odd shapes for their plugins. But that was a long time ago.

/C
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sprnva
KVRian
1447 posts since 16 Jan, 2013

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:52 am

I guess because they have to be windowed.
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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
23510 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:07 am

Squares and rectangles fit together better on a rectangular screen.

stratum
KVRAF
2203 posts since 29 May, 2012

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:23 am

A nonrectangular window is actually a rectangular window with transparent regions. From a programmer's perspective it looks like an unnecessary feature that you would need to spend time to implement, and in the end it doesn't seem to be very useful for anything.
~stratum~

JCJR
KVRAF
2491 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:34 am

Just guessing but any oddity in a plugin window handling seems begging for it to completely freak out assorted hosts, each host possibly feeaking in a unique peculiar fashion. :)

Also from the "once burned" perspective, it has been possible to make weird shaped windows for decades but the techniques keep changing, so after the cutsie novelty window gets killed by a new update of winders or macos a time or two, an older developer might decide that it is wasted time trying to keep rewriting non-essential feature and just use whatever looks like it might run the max number of years before some new hire at Apple or MS decides to break the ancient way that had been written by new retirees, just because it is old fashioned or difficult to continue maintaining along with the next big thing.

Shortly after the invention of fire I used custom written windows I liked better on Mac using a technology called wdefs, but by the time Apple got around to breaking wdefs, they had broken so much "more important stuff" that giving up customized window behavior (or rewriting it for the next big thing) was the least of my concerns. If your pants are on fire then that burning shed can wait! :)

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vurt
addled muppet weed
40614 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:41 am

just get some fish eye lens glasses :tu:

deastman
KVRAF
6945 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:49 am

The window doesn’t even exist, man... it’s all in your mind!
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mystran
KVRAF
5156 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:24 am

Host gives a rectangle for the plugin to place itself into, so even if the plugin itself was in the shape of a knot it'd still effectively occupy a rectangle region on the screen.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
40614 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:48 am

its actually because hardware manufacturers have no imagination.
so all the controllers are rectangular.
thus, to make it easier for the musicians mind (they are a bit daft) to marry the controller to the vst in question, so as to make using the said vst, "simple enough even a drummer could operate it" vst devs, decided it would be best to follow suit.

if only the bop pad had sold more :(

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vurt
addled muppet weed
40614 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:49 am

and of course, no triangles, because, the illuminati.

JCJR
KVRAF
2491 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:27 pm

Well pre-osx Mac quickdraw regions were defined maybe over-engineered but a window region (or any quickdraw region) well it could be derived from a rectangle or arbitrary bitmap but so far as I recall was similar to a vector draw list.

So that defining a funky window shape there would be the actual shape recognized by the OS window z-order mechanisms, not just a shape embedded in a rectangle bounding frame.

Admittedly probably unnecessarily elaborate though it could do some fancy tricks. Dunno if other major OS's had such fancy native region functionality. Am way out of date on the topic.

But after all a windowed scrolling mobius strip window would be so yesterday, though horz scrolling a looped wave editor window from side A thru strip side B and finally back to the origin again on side A might be cute.

Ahh, but an x-y scrolled Klein bottle window where you navigate both the outside and inside. The Klein bottle 3d tilts and zooms onscreen as you scroll the window to view all it's surfaces. Silly idea.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
40614 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:39 pm

you had me at klein bottle :love:

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KVRian
1151 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Inverness, Scotland

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:22 pm

I remember waaaaaaaaaaaaay back when juce first came out for plugins. with a line of code you could make any component "draggable-onto-desktop", and they all came with transparency so you could drag a group of buttons/sliders whatever out to where you needed them on top of your daw and still see behind them. winston loved it(where he go?), was moving about tracktion taking just the buttons he needed and putting main plug window out of way behind daw.
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Touch The Universe
KVRAF
3542 posts since 2 Oct, 2008

Re: Why are all plugins square or rectangle?

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:52 am

Thanks guys. guess I have an answer/s that makes sense. Seems it's all the DAWS fault :D whom might be operating under the constraints of the OS.

Next time I run into bill or tim, I'll demand circle vsti's :D
High Quality Soundsets for Lush-101 | Hive | Electra 2 | Diversion | Halion | Largo | Rapid | Dune II | Thorn | and Spire.
http://www.touch-the-universe.com/

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