Roland Cloud

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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Captain
KVRist
444 posts since 29 Nov, 2002 from Finland

Post Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:10 am

Stefken wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:04 am
Still, the deal is good imo.
Yes, I totally agree! And I fully trust the info you got from their support, but still, somehow I would feel better if I could also see it clearly on their website... :) Don’t understand why they are trying to hide something that I think could very well make a lot more people subscribe (like me).

Caroozo
KVRist
59 posts since 9 Mar, 2012

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:03 am

I use Sound Cloud and after several months it's clear Roland is investing heavily in software. Why? Recreations of real-analog hardware is very costly, and surely Behringer is killing this market by making cheap (quite good!) clones. I had once D50, Juno 106, JV1080 and plugins are sounding as good as hardware. Buying JP8 nowadays is quite an investment and not really worth the cost.

I'm afraid about one thing - even if I own one plugin per year, I still need Internet connection to authorize them once a week. I wonder if Roland is planning to release hardware platform to load EVERY plugin like Arturia Genesis or something or let us use for-life plugins permanently offline (with some kind of USB dongle or one-time activation?).

It seems to me they are making a whole system, but there's an end to it somewhere (they can "digitize" every gear and then what?), and after several years, subscribers, who gets what they want, will end the subscribtion. It surely works for now, but I'm wondering if Roland is going to release it's software as stand-alone products?

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4629 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:25 am

Captain wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:10 am
Don’t understand why they are trying to hide something that I think could very well make a lot more people subscribe (like me).
They had it there before the Xmas offer ended - they may well be changing policies and don't want to have the old information onsite if they can help it until they finally update the policy. With the noises apparently coming from support, they may simply institute the "two per year" or "two for the first year" as standard.

Shiek927
KVRist
457 posts since 14 May, 2014

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:05 pm

Caroozo wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:03 am
I use Sound Cloud and after several months it's clear Roland is investing heavily in software. Why? Recreations of real-analog hardware is very costly, and surely Behringer is killing this market by making cheap (quite good!) clones. I had once D50, Juno 106, JV1080 and plugins are sounding as good as hardware. Buying JP8 nowadays is quite an investment and not really worth the cost.

I'm afraid about one thing - even if I own one plugin per year, I still need Internet connection to authorize them once a week. I wonder if Roland is planning to release hardware platform to load EVERY plugin like Arturia Genesis or something or let us use for-life plugins permanently offline (with some kind of USB dongle or one-time activation?).

It seems to me they are making a whole system, but there's an end to it somewhere (they can "digitize" every gear and then what?), and after several years, subscribers, who gets what they want, will end the subscribtion. It surely works for now, but I'm wondering if Roland is going to release it's software as stand-alone products?
Personally, I'm still gonna get myself a V-Synth this year just because I have definite use of it and I don't think it'll be available in the cloud for quite some time. Once it does hit the cloud, I'll definitely re-sell it and get a nice simple MIDI keyboard.

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W23
KVRist
308 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:02 pm

Caroozo wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:03 am
I use Sound Cloud and after several months it's
It seems to me they are making a whole system, but there's an end to it somewhere (they can "digitize" every gear and then what?), and after several years, subscribers, who gets what they want, will end the subscribtion. It surely works for now, but I'm wondering if Roland is going to release it's software as stand-alone products?
This is just guessing on my part but, I have a feeling that Roland, being who they are (a hardware instrument company) would really like to sell you a digital workstation/keyboard that could easily run 10-15 (or more) instances of their software synths that you download from their Cloud. The System 1s and 8s are most likely a dry run. I think it was a pretty wise move for them to start with relatively inexpensive “dongles” like the System 1 & 100 just to see if a market is out there for hybrid software/hardware systems (it is).

Roland used to make good bank on their “professional workstation” lines. After everything went to shit in 2008, that market took a hit but, I am sure Roland still remembers those days of people dropping $2500 to $3500 on an impulse buy. People do the same with guitars and amps, how are keyboards any different (people are buying fewer guitars and amps, though)? Waldorf and Moog just released a couple of $5000+ synths. Roland can’t be too far behind, and they are already putting out hardware that complements the computer that you already own, not necessarily replaces it. If they can successfully strap a sequencer, drum pads, and a decent sized touch screen (like the MPC-X) well, I have a credit card and I’m not afraid to use it.

Stefken
KVRian
911 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:09 pm

I'm not too familiair with Roland but I heard something about the plugouts not being updated while the cloud plugins were.
Doesn't sound like giving priority to hardware to me....

User avatar
W23
KVRist
308 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:47 pm

Roland just released the JX3P plug-out in August of last year. They’re still selling System 1s, 100s, and 8s. I am sure they would like to keep selling (or renting?) soft versions of their back catalog. They are also promoting the System 8, in addition to a digital piano, and some V drums at this year’s NAMM. They are still very much a hardware company. Now, I know that the Aira Store and the Cloud are separate entities but, it would be damn silly to not work toward that end. I’m kind of amazed that they haven’t done so already

raymondwave
KVRist
236 posts since 2 May, 2014

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:02 pm

RichN wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:38 am
With a laggy GUI, do you mean the knobs? And is the sound steppy too while turning the knobs with the mouse? (like, when you for example turn the cutoff frequency knob to sweep the filter?). I'm having this problem and Roland support told me that they've been able to reproduce this. I'm using Mojave too, and Bitwig and Studio One 4.
Knobs don't respond very fast and it's just laggy in general, not sure if it's stepped. But even moving the window around is jumpy. Hope they get it fixed soon, very annoying.

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rezoneight
KVRist
68 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:31 pm

Stefken wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:09 pm
I'm not too familiair with Roland but I heard something about the plugouts not being updated while the cloud plugins were.
Doesn't sound like giving priority to hardware to me....
Well, yes the original plug-outs haven't been. You can however use the cloud stuff as plug-outs as well. In fact you can get a trial and install a plug-out and it still works when the trial ends.

Stefken
KVRian
911 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:50 pm

rezoneight wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:31 pm
Stefken wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:09 pm
I'm not too familiair with Roland but I heard something about the plugouts not being updated while the cloud plugins were.
Doesn't sound like giving priority to hardware to me....
Well, yes the original plug-outs haven't been. You can however use the cloud stuff as plug-outs as well. In fact you can get a trial and install a plug-out and it still works when the trial ends.
That's a nice trick. Than you don't even have to buy new plugouts?

Caroozo
KVRist
59 posts since 9 Mar, 2012

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:22 am

W23 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:02 pm
Caroozo wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:03 am
I use Sound Cloud and after several months it's
It seems to me they are making a whole system, but there's an end to it somewhere (they can "digitize" every gear and then what?), and after several years, subscribers, who gets what they want, will end the subscribtion. It surely works for now, but I'm wondering if Roland is going to release it's software as stand-alone products?
This is just guessing on my part but, I have a feeling that Roland, being who they are (a hardware instrument company) would really like to sell you a digital workstation/keyboard that could easily run 10-15 (or more) instances of their software synths that you download from their Cloud. The System 1s and 8s are most likely a dry run. I think it was a pretty wise move for them to start with relatively inexpensive “dongles” like the System 1 & 100 just to see if a market is out there for hybrid software/hardware systems (it is).

Roland used to make good bank on their “professional workstation” lines. After everything went to shit in 2008, that market took a hit but, I am sure Roland still remembers those days of people dropping $2500 to $3500 on an impulse buy. People do the same with guitars and amps, how are keyboards any different (people are buying fewer guitars and amps, though)? Waldorf and Moog just released a couple of $5000+ synths. Roland can’t be too far behind, and they are already putting out hardware that complements the computer that you already own, not necessarily replaces it. If they can successfully strap a sequencer, drum pads, and a decent sized touch screen (like the MPC-X) well, I have a credit card and I’m not afraid to use it.
Roland divided soft-synths to AIRA series and Roland Cloud. There's NO hardware solution for the plugins on Roland Cloud - maybe expect D05. I know Roland don't want to cannibalize his hardware (D05 for example), but c'mon - there's already D50 card for V-Synth and VariOS, and from my perspective (playing live and using notebook with several plugins from Roland) I would gladly pay even 2000-3000$ for an entire system able to load AIRA and Roland Cloud plugins (maybe expect TERA-based, due to it's size).

SO my guess is - Roland is building up the entire ecosystem and is developing plugins - OK. They made subscription model, so there are funds for futhere development - OK. They have base of users, who give them feedback about future features or bugs - which is excellent. BUT there are some weird things - for example I have an official response from them that PC (program change) for D50 is on wishlist, but they cannot tell if it will be implemented. As for me, it's essential for playing live (luckily, Reaper can make presets of such stubborn plugins :hihi: ). It's weird, 'cause D05 sounds EXACTLY the same, it has to be the plugin inside custom hardware and it HAS Program Change over MIDI. So... Roland is up to something, by blocking BASIC funcionality (heck, even my old Roland SC-155 has better control over MIDI :? ).

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17717 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:07 am

Roland was always known for doing stupid limitations for no good reason.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2049 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:42 am

Like Apple, Steinberg, Microsoft, Korg, Avid etc... It seams a certain size of a company leads to it... Good that the small ones are there as well...

User avatar
rezoneight
KVRist
68 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:37 pm

Stefken wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:50 pm
rezoneight wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:31 pm
Stefken wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:09 pm
I'm not too familiair with Roland but I heard something about the plugouts not being updated while the cloud plugins were.
Doesn't sound like giving priority to hardware to me....
Well, yes the original plug-outs haven't been. You can however use the cloud stuff as plug-outs as well. In fact you can get a trial and install a plug-out and it still works when the trial ends.
That's a nice trick. Than you don't even have to buy new plugouts?
Nope. Just to note its only the ones they originally offered for sale separately...like the SH-02, Promars, etc.

Also, pretty sure others have been using the System 8 cloud version for patch management even without an active sub (if you had one before)

User avatar
rezoneight
KVRist
68 posts since 18 Feb, 2004

Re: Roland Cloud

Post Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:38 pm

Caroozo wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:22 am

Roland divided soft-synths to AIRA series and Roland Cloud. There's NO hardware solution for the plugins on Roland Cloud - maybe expect D05.
Not quite true. System-8 can do it for the cloud versions of the original plugouts they offered separately (like SH-02, Promars, etc)

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