How to get to like -2LUFS???

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imrae
KVRian
531 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:24 am

Most saturators are static waveshapers: the signal is upsampled, gain may be added and the values are passed into a mathematical function which is linear for values near zero and cannot exceed a maximum. The samples of a peak are therefore prevented from going as high as they would otherwise and unlike a compressor there is no lag in the process so no samples can "sneak through". Then the signal is filtered to remove supersonic content and downsampled back to your DAW sample rate.

Essentially they apply a more rounded version of clipping (when the rounding is near the ceiling it is often called "soft clipping".) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)

Brandon203113
KVRist
56 posts since 25 Sep, 2018

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:51 am

So in your opinion, you're just saying soft clip everything (Each individual channel + on the master)??? or is there more to it??? Could i get it even louder with a more aggressive clipping shape or should i just stick to soft clip and not hard?

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nix808
KVRAF
3701 posts since 22 Jul, 2006 from Tasmania, Australia

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:59 am

imo- it is certainly advantageous to soft clip.
if you hard clip it is more of a discontinuity and creates more distorsion
I soft clip with a limiter

MogwaiBoy
KVRAF
2992 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:28 pm

Last night as a test I threw one of my pre-master mixes into RX and just chucked +10db gain on it (no limiting) - file stats showed 17,000 peaks over 0db with overs at +6db. I went to the loudest bit of the track and pushed play and I'll be damned if I could hear any distortion.

It surprises me what you can squeeze out of a waveform sometimes.

That said, -2LUFS integrated is just silly. Which artists are these btw? i'm guessing dubstep or similar.

imrae
KVRian
531 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:50 pm

Brandon203113 wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:51 am
So in your opinion, you're just saying soft clip everything (Each individual channel + on the master)??? or is there more to it??? Could i get it even louder with a more aggressive clipping shape or should i just stick to soft clip and not hard?
Again, if all you care about is loudness you can just replace your music with a full-scale square wave. Hard clipping is the way to make your music more like a square wave.

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Boone777
KVRian
701 posts since 8 Aug, 2011

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:33 pm

I never tried that much compression but to my knowledge what does it best without sounding like crap is Kclip from Kazrog. It seems to me that what you are trying to accomplish might be a good job for a clipper.
Win 7, 64Bit, 16 Gig RAM, Intel i7 Quad 3.9, Reaper 5.965, Steinberg MR816x

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DJErmac
KVRian
718 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:53 pm

DMG Limitless can get you there easily. If your mix is not a complete mess, you'll reach -4.5~-4 LUFS within a blink. Then you'll probably need to tweak your master to gain more (before Limitless of course). EQing the spectrum is the key now. Give very wide boosts of frequencies on middle frequencies, simply make it sound loud and right to you of course. You should be now around -3 (I've just done it). Now maybe your mix still needs a little compression or maybe you can still boost Limitless without sounding saturated...

But I see no point in this. I try to master my drops around -6 LUFS, just like every other songs I listen to. But you're the boss.

Brandon203113
KVRist
56 posts since 25 Sep, 2018

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:09 pm

Boone777 wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:33 pm
I never tried that much compression but to my knowledge what does it best without sounding like crap is Kclip from Kazrog. It seems to me that what you are trying to accomplish might be a good job for a clipper.
I appreciate the advice i'll check it out!

Brandon203113
KVRist
56 posts since 25 Sep, 2018

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:10 pm

DJErmac wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:53 pm
DMG Limitless can get you there easily. If your mix is not a complete mess, you'll reach -4.5~-4 LUFS within a blink. Then you'll probably need to tweak your master to gain more (before Limitless of course). EQing the spectrum is the key now. Give very wide boosts of frequencies on middle frequencies, simply make it sound loud and right to you of course. You should be now around -3 (I've just done it). Now maybe your mix still needs a little compression or maybe you can still boost Limitless without sounding saturated...

But I see no point in this. I try to master my drops around -6 LUFS, just like every other songs I listen to. But you're the boss.
Yo cool, I'll see what i can do, thankyou!

SoundPorn
KVRist
487 posts since 24 Jul, 2018

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:00 am

For starters -2Lufs is absolute madness. My advice is to grab that same song off Youtube or Spotify then check the Lufs i promise it'll be closer to -12 or -14.

And other then that I think you're mistake is simple...You're using only 1 limiter. For maximus loudness have it run into a compressor that runs into a soft clipper, that runs into 2 different limiters. Actually you may want to use 2 clippers on for stereo and the other for mid side. Saturate and soft clip the mid signal while widening the sides.

SoundPorn
KVRist
487 posts since 24 Jul, 2018

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:01 am

Why do you think the Limiter 6 got six modules on it? You can't be over stressing just one or 2 to rely on maximun loudness.

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Googly Smythe
KVRAF
2258 posts since 12 May, 2011 from Not where I was just now.

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:12 pm

SoundPorn wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:00 am
...
And other then that I think you're mistake is simple...You're using only 1 limiter. For maximus loudness have it run into a compressor that runs into a soft clipper, that runs into 2 different limiters. Actually you may want to use 2 clippers on for stereo and the other for mid side. Saturate and soft clip the mid signal while widening the sides.
Also:
1) Compressor AND limiter/clipper on EVERY track and group.
2) High pass everything except kick and bass at 100Hz.
3)At least 2 limiters on the master, maybe 3.

None of these doing more than 3-4 dB gr.

One limiter on the stereo out won't do it.


EDIT:
Whilst most of us (including myself) think -10 LUFS is over the top, let alone -2 :o I don't think we should get all judgemental about it. One man's meat &tc.
Have a nice day! :party:

Brandon203113
KVRist
56 posts since 25 Sep, 2018

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:21 pm

Googly Smythe wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:12 pm
SoundPorn wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:00 am
...
And other then that I think you're mistake is simple...You're using only 1 limiter. For maximus loudness have it run into a compressor that runs into a soft clipper, that runs into 2 different limiters. Actually you may want to use 2 clippers on for stereo and the other for mid side. Saturate and soft clip the mid signal while widening the sides.
Also:
1) Compressor AND limiter/clipper on EVERY track and group.
2) High pass everything except kick and bass at 100Hz.
3)At least 2 limiters on the master, maybe 3.

None of these doing more than 3-4 dB gr.

One limiter on the stereo out won't do it.


EDIT:
Whilst most of us (including myself) think -10 LUFS is over the top, let alone -2 :o I don't think we should get all judgemental about it. One man's meat &tc.
Have a nice day! :party:
Is it true that if you use multiple limiters instead of 1 instance, it's more transparent? Also, can they be the same limiters or would you suggest like 3 different limiters?

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Googly Smythe
KVRAF
2258 posts since 12 May, 2011 from Not where I was just now.

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:01 pm

Brandon203113 wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:21 pm
Googly Smythe wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:12 pm
SoundPorn wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:00 am
...
And other then that I think you're mistake is simple...You're using only 1 limiter. For maximus loudness have it run into a compressor that runs into a soft clipper, that runs into 2 different limiters. Actually you may want to use 2 clippers on for stereo and the other for mid side. Saturate and soft clip the mid signal while widening the sides.
Also:
1) Compressor AND limiter/clipper on EVERY track and group.
2) High pass everything except kick and bass at 100Hz.
3)At least 2 limiters on the master, maybe 3.

None of these doing more than 3-4 dB gr.

One limiter on the stereo out won't do it.


EDIT:
Whilst most of us (including myself) think -10 LUFS is over the top, let alone -2 :o I don't think we should get all judgemental about it. One man's meat &tc.
Have a nice day! :party:
Is it true that if you use multiple limiters instead of 1 instance, it's more transparent? Also, can they be the same limiters or would you suggest like 3 different limiters?
As long as the limiters are of good quality it's up to you. Remember that none of them should be working very hard, maybe 3dB of GR, that's why it works. It's like lifting a heavy weight - it may be hard for one person, but it's much less effort for 3 or 4.
For myself, on my stereo out, I use bx limiter, bx XL and Cubase's stock Brickwall Limiter, which I find distorts like crazy if pushed even lightly, but it keeps my loudness psychosis in check!
Also, there is no escaping the fact that you have to experiment - this is how you gain experience! :tu:
It's one o'clock in the morning where I am, so I'm off to bed. :zzz:

SoundPorn
KVRist
487 posts since 24 Jul, 2018

Re: How to get to like -2LUFS???

Post Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:55 pm

Its absolutely true its like if u have a bunch of cheap reverbs ur better off mixing them with only a lil wet from each then just using one and going full wet with a long tail itll get exposed then.

What seperates quality compressors and limiters from others is how much gain reduction before distortion and aliasing occur. But all of them can do a db or 2 without issue
Brandon203113 wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:21 pm
Googly Smythe wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:12 pm
SoundPorn wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:00 am
...
And other then that I think you're mistake is simple...You're using only 1 limiter. For maximus loudness have it run into a compressor that runs into a soft clipper, that runs into 2 different limiters. Actually you may want to use 2 clippers on for stereo and the other for mid side. Saturate and soft clip the mid signal while widening the sides.
Also:
1) Compressor AND limiter/clipper on EVERY track and group.
2) High pass everything except kick and bass at 100Hz.
3)At least 2 limiters on the master, maybe 3.

None of these doing more than 3-4 dB gr.

One limiter on the stereo out won't do it.


EDIT:
Whilst most of us (including myself) think -10 LUFS is over the top, let alone -2 :o I don't think we should get all judgemental about it. One man's meat &tc.
Have a nice day! :party:
Is it true that if you use multiple limiters instead of 1 instance, it's more transparent? Also, can they be the same limiters or would you suggest like 3 different limiters?

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