Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
40521 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:42 am

Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:37 am
vurt wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:33 am
will a usb hub power so many synths at once? or would there be dropouts?

i only have one usb synth, so im only asking out of interest :)
It will definitely need to be powered. A quick Google will clue you up on the random nature of USB hubs related to audio. I certainly wouldn't trust it personally.

i agree with the bold part 8)
i assumed as much to be honest.
cheers :)

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
23493 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:43 am

My setup:

PC-> Midi keys-> Midi Splitter-> Synths-> Mixing Desk-> Audio Interface

Both the methods you mention would work too. It depends on what connections your synths & audio interface have ...

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Hink
Rad Grandad
27874 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:46 am

https://reverb.com/item/3265293-360-sys ... ith-memory

Image

I have one of those, it doesn't get used as much as it use to but I would never part with it. I have had it since 2000, I had just started a job at a music store chain, it had floated around all of their stores and was at our store. Nobody was sure of what it was for I guess and 360 systems is not well known enough for the average consumer, But I knew what it was and it was exactly what I had been looking for. Memory fails me some, I think it was marked at 40 and the day I took the job I offered 20 and they took it just to get rid of it.
"The 360 Systems MIDI Patcher is an intelligent 8 in, 8 out MIDI routing matrix capable of memorizing up to 100 custom MIDI patch configurations that are instantly accessible either through the front panel buttons or via MIDI program change commands. Along with routing information, each internal patch may also contain a "mapping" of user-defined program change messages that will be sent out selected MIDI outputs when the patch is activated. This mapping feature may be disabled globally without affecting the stored list."
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

db3
KVRAF
1987 posts since 22 Aug, 2012

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:28 pm

I have an Elektron Overhub (7 USB ports) with 5 Synths connected for MIDI, with all audio coming in live via Focusrite interface. All good.
-dthree-

JCJR
KVRAF
2476 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:07 pm

Hi Distorted Horizon. It MAY garner more relevant advice if you could list PC or Mac, the synths you will be using, the DAW and other software you want to use. Also the kind of music you want to make. Finally, do you record a lot of midi tracks in realtime from keyboard or other controller? Or do you do mostly step time and piano roll and midi event editor type track assembly?

There are some hardware setup approaches that would be great for some ways of working but turn out frustrating deal-breakers for other ways of working. So without knowing your goals a little better it would be easy to over- or under-spec a system, or require writing too many words describing advantages or disadvantages, options that may not even apply to your goals.

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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
1519 posts since 17 Jan, 2017

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:11 pm

Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:35 am
Distorted Horizon wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:31 am
Volca bass is the only one not having usb available. Though that could be fixed with usb to midi cable.

So the best option would be to either pc -> midisplitter via usb -> synths -> audio interface -> pc

Or

Pc -> usb hub -> synths -> audio interface -> pc?
Personally I'd go old skool analogue MIDI. It just works and has been tried and tested for decades.

As Vurt mentions, you're asking for a world of pain trying to run all this from a USB hub. Sure it may work but I guarantee you it won't be as simple as an old skool MIDI cable.
Okay. Thank you for sharing your wisdom :hail: Most appreciated :hug: :tu:

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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
1519 posts since 17 Jan, 2017

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:58 am

Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:02 am
indeed and will
Getting quickly back to this..

So the person would be using this

https://www.thomann.de/fi/maudio_midisport_uno.htm

to get the midi data from DAW to this

https://www.thomann.de/fi/kenton_midi_thru_12.htm

which would then send the correct midi to correct synth etc?

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
10619 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:34 am

Distorted Horizon wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:58 am
Getting quickly back to this..

So the person would be using this

https://www.thomann.de/fi/maudio_midisport_uno.htm

to get the midi data from DAW to this

https://www.thomann.de/fi/kenton_midi_thru_12.htm

which would then send the correct midi to correct synth etc?
If you go ahead with the Behringer audio interface you mentioned earlier you don't need another MIDI interface as it already has one.

Then depending on how many synths you have you would only require a splitter/thru box if the synths didn't already have Thrus on them. I'm sure at least some will so you could possibly even get away with the Kenton Thru-5
https://www.thomann.de/fi/kenton_midi_thru_5.htm

Another thing to consider, some synths have a soft thru. This is essentially a MIDI out that can be switched to Thru. So if you see a synth only has In and Out don't write it off until you know for sure it cannot be switched.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

JCJR
KVRAF
2476 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:39 am

Apologies being a worry wart but the intended application would dictate best gear selection.

If you record a lot in real time then you want a combination of hw and sw with low latency midi thru from controller to computer to synth. If you don't record a lot in realtime then the specs are looser and many other options would be tolerable without driving you crazy after using the rig for awhile

MS-TWN
KVRer
3 posts since 30 Jan, 2019

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:30 pm

Hey guys,

Hoping someone will respond to my query.

We bought UMC1820 but found later that audio level on umc1820 can not be controlled using any software or DAW. If this is true can someone please suggest work around. Our goal is to control audio gain at UMC using GUI or any software.

Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
7530 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:04 pm

vurt wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:33 am
will a usb hub power so many synths at once? or would there be dropouts?
When you over-tax the power, your PC will tell you it cannot power all the currently connected devices and at least one thing will stop working, although usually everything stops working. All you need to sort it, though, is a powered USB hub and everything will work. Up to the point of overload, though, unpowered hubs work perfectly well (or mine does, at least). I had no trouble having my audio I/O, Roli and Uno connected at the same time. I was extremely skeptical at first but I gave it a go and it worked out OK for a while, until I wanted to add the Ultranova. Now I have an Elektron OVERHUB so it's smooth sailing for up to 8 devices.
Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:35 am
Personally I'd go old skool analogue MIDI. It just works and has been tried and tested for decades.
First of all, there is no such thing as analogue MIDI, MIDI is a digital protocol and always has been. Secondly, MIDI splitters have existed for 30-odd years because MIDI has never "just worked", linking long chains of devices has always been problematic. If anything it's USB MIDI that "just works" because it simplifies the whole process. I can have the following all connected to my PC at once, via USB, and it all just works -

Yamaha AG-06 (mixer/audio device) (USB power)
Roli Seaboard Rise 25 (USB power)
Waldorf Rocket
IK Uno (USB power)
Novation Ultranova (USB power)
Elektron Analog Keys

The only thing I need a MIDI cable for is my MicroMonsta, everything else works via USB and it all works as reliably as any MIDI set-up I ever had in the 1980s or '90s, with the added benefit of supplying power to most of the devices without extra cabling. It's really cool.
Last edited by BONES on Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Win10), Yamaha AG06, Orion 64 bit, Roli Seaboard Rise 25, Ultranova, Rocket, Pulse 2, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno.

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Deep Purple
KVRian
518 posts since 9 Jan, 2015 from NY, NY

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:04 pm

I agree on the USB hub - power is the only consideration, and as BONES says, if you have a powered USB hub then you shouldn't run into that problem at all.
Sweet child in time...

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
10619 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:43 am

BONES wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:04 pm
First of all, there is no such thing as analogue MIDI, MIDI is a digital protocol and always has been.
Yes, you're correct and I did know this. Just a momentary brain fart whilst replying, it even has digital in the acronym.
BONES wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:04 pm
Secondly, MIDI splitters have existed for 30-odd years because MIDI has never "just worked", linking long chains of devices has always been problematic.
I did state exactly this. That if you're looking to link several synths you might (emphasis) need to look at a MIDI splitter. The OP is only looking at a handful of synths and assuming they're all in the same location with short cables (I haven't seen his room) he could be ok (again, emphasis on could).
BONES wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:04 pm
If anything it's USB MIDI that "just works" because it simplifies the whole process. I can have the following all connected to my PC at once, via USB, and it all just works
Well if that works for you that's great. My USB hub is full of computer peripherals that have no other connectivity option (ie, soundcard, control surfaces, dongles, etc) and that is 8 ports right there. This is a powered hub and it works a treat but I wouldn't feel comfortable adding another 5 or 6 synths to it. Plus there is another consideration, my studio becomes hardware only at the press of a button, something which isn't possible if they're all going via the computer.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
1519 posts since 17 Jan, 2017

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:28 pm

BONES wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:04 pm
a powered USB hub and everything will work.
Soooo you say that it'd be sufficient for around 5 synths that the person would hook up a powered usb3 hub, and connect the synths to that?

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
7530 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Stupid question of setting a hardware setup

Post Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:42 pm

Yep, no problems. If those synths aren't using USB for power, though, then you wouldn't need a powered hub. It's only when enough peripherals draw power from USB that you need a powered hub. e.g. My Rocket, Pulse 2 and Analog Keys still need power connected separately, so connecting any or all of them doesn't add to the power drain of the USB hub. Or if I run my Uno on batteries, it doesn't draw power from USB, either.
Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:43 am
Well if that works for you that's great. My USB hub is full of computer peripherals that have no other connectivity option (ie, soundcard, control surfaces, dongles, etc) and that is 8 ports right there.
That's just about designing your system to suit your needs. Dongles, for example, could sit off a second hub connected to your powered hub or a different USB port on your computer.
This is a powered hub and it works a treat but I wouldn't feel comfortable adding another 5 or 6 synths to it.
I wasn't comfortable using a USB hub at all until I tried it. You might be surprised how well it all works.
Plus there is another consideration, my studio becomes hardware only at the press of a button, something which isn't possible if they're all going via the computer.
You say that like it's a good thing. Without my PC, my hardware only makes sound when I hit it. The PC is the most important aspect of my studio, the hardware is just for show when we play live. I'd need a much bigger mixer if I tried to work without the computer.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Acer Switch5 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Win10), Yamaha AG06, Orion 64 bit, Roli Seaboard Rise 25, Ultranova, Rocket, Pulse 2, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno.

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