Someone said this was Snake Oil...

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
phaded
KVRist
132 posts since 12 Mar, 2012

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:32 pm

Image

I CAN HEAR THAT 5% DIFFERENCE

Ploki
KVRian
581 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:45 pm

and /thread

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BasariStudios
KVRian
1291 posts since 25 Sep, 2011 from New York

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm

What a bunch of Dreamers who never even saw a real Console in their life but now all are Mastering Engineers. Some people have NO CLUE what they are talking about or have NO CLUE what a TRIM Knob does yet they have the confidence to bash Acustica or any other company. You not knowing how to use a plugin does not mean its bad.
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL. 2 850 PRO 256GB.
Prime Total. Acustica: Nebula Server 3, Scarlett 2, Amethyst, Murano, Titanium, Magenta 3, Navy.

cfanyc
KVRist
261 posts since 8 Dec, 2013

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:36 pm

bmanic wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:22 am
cfanyc wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:19 am
exactly this ^

for every developer who claims doing accurate emulations of audio hardware
be that may u-he, slate, roland, uad, tal, etc etc there are many side-by-side
public comparisons of the hardware and software set to match as perfectly as possible.

EXCEPT acustica, where the exactness of the emulation is an article of
religious dogma, and side by side comparisons are NEVER presented either
by the company or the fans.

So if you like acustica, that is charming, but please do not profess that it is an acurate
hardware emulation until you produce the proof.
It's interesting to keep hearing this lie being thrown out there over and over again. First of all, it is by far a MINORITY of developers who have done proper A/B comparisons between hardware and software. You make it sound like it's the norm. It is not.. not even close.

Also, Acustica audio has at least one product where they did an exact A/B comparison video on their youtube channel as so many people were complaining, especially when the hardware in question is bespoke and not available for purchase.. so they did one. Yet conveniently nobody mentions this.. also all of the naysayers interestingly completely shut up once they did that but have apparently started to resurface yet again.

In case you want to go check out that A/B test it's their Cobalt product and the 2nd half of that introductory video of the actual hardware contains exact A/B comparisons.

There's also been a number of shootouts with hardware vs software where Acustica Audio plugins or 3rd party developed programs have taken part.. so it's not like it's impossible to find any comparisons.

Let's see who is spreading lies:

Out of dozens of aqua plugins that acustica has released and thousands of
nebula presets and libraries
over the years, you were able to mention ONE (!) specific head to
head comparison produced by either acustica OR users
and that singular comparison representing less than 1/1000 of all acustica emus,
happens to involve an obscure mod-ed unit in some studio in Italy, which quite
frankly nobody cares if it is properly emulated or not.

Thank you for making my case for me.

cfanyc
KVRist
261 posts since 8 Dec, 2013

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:00 pm

bmanic wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:11 am
Digivolt wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:15 am
Why do Acustica Audio products court so much controversy ?

Both fans and haters are equally quite vicious when it comes to attacking each other whilst those of us who are indifferent are left puzzled why it gets so intense
I'd put this down on the company itself. They have always been extremely hype oriented and always say everything is "the best evah!!!!". It's probably a cultural thing. Italians have a tendency to exaggerate things quite freely.

They've also had a really long history of problems on various systems and also a lot of bugs in the sampling. Combine this with the hefty system requirements and you are bound to get a lot of unhappy customers.

Though to be fair, they've been 100% forthright about all of this. They've never tried to downplay any of their faults when it comes to the quirkyness and have been rapidly improving.

So yeah, this in turn leads to people who accept and understand the quirks of the system to heavily defend the company due to feelings of loyalty.

Radicals on all fronts rule the interwebs right now and entitlement and child like behavior is the current norm.
Reading your apologetics of acustica audio, I am shocked that you put all Italians
in the same bucket as Giancarlo and acustica. Italy has some exceptional
plugin developers, like Overloud, sknote, and hornet. Also legendary
synth manufacturers like Elka Synthex and Cumar to name just two.
Numerous world class scientists, artists, companies...

These are serious people, not clowns. Italians at large do not behave professionally like clowns,
only some Italians (like every other nationality) do and it is fair game to call the BS.

Regarding acustica not downplaying the faults, of course they have. They have been literally
claiming for years that all major bugs and coding inefficiencies were impossible to
solve and yet when they solve them acustica's head declares a "miracle" (yes, this
clown has used this language to describe his crappy coding).

As to whether radicals have taken over the web, nice try to paint exasperated
customers and former customers and people who do not suffer
fools easily as "radicals". Tell us why the "radicals" have
problems only with the acustica clown shop and not most other developers then.

User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
8264 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:05 pm

EDIT: Never mind. Not worth it. I was just being nasty.. better to just put him on the ignore list.
Last edited by bmanic on Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

User avatar
bmanic
KVRAF
8264 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:08 pm

Double
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

sleepcircle
KVRian
540 posts since 28 Nov, 2016

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:29 pm

cfanyc wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:00 pm
As to whether radicals have taken over the web, nice try to paint exasperated
customers and former customers and people who do not suffer
fools easily as "radicals". Tell us why the "radicals" have
problems only with the acustica clown shop and not most other developers then.
he wasn't saying 'all dissatisfied customers were radicals.' he was saying that radicals have taken over the internet and that consequently acting 'radical', which is to say "being super aggressive, talking to complete strangers as if they're scum for disagreeing with you, and refusing to offer the opposite side the benefit of the doubt or any consideration" is now the norm.

not everyone who likes or dislikes acoustica audio is like that, but the ones who are like that are encouraged by the current internet climate.


speaking of which, this thread should have been abandoned pages ago.

nearly everyone is treating everyone else like garbage, and no-one is edifying anyone else.

User avatar
Russell Grand
KVRAF
1670 posts since 22 May, 2017

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:11 pm

:roll: Take it easy on this guy, sheesh. :hihi:

jochicago
KVRist
372 posts since 26 Feb, 2018

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:23 pm

For what is worth, while some of the opinions here have gone dark, overall I took something from this thread.

Just to clarify, at least my angle, I see most people agreeing that the plugins sound good. And mostly the conversation is about workflow - are you willing to use a plugin that requires a lot of resources, maybe adapt your workflow to add some mojo to the tracks, print them and start a new project without the heavy plugins.

Honestly, I understand 100% if someone feels the plugin is adding something special and worth adapting to it. I personally decided not to use plugins that take up resources, and I'm currently cleaning house on a couple of plugins that can't handle 10 instances because it bothers me to get to the end of a mix and start to stutter. But I also use mojo plugins - there's a Waves NLS on my master for this very reason.

Making audio plugins is hard. Making money doing this is even harder. I wouldn't wish bad publicity on any developer unless it is properly deserved by hurting customers. I have best wishes for Acustica Audio and I hope they continue to improve the technology and make better and more optimized tools. I won't be using them until the resource load is much lower, but I hope the day comes that I'll get to play with such a plugin.

User avatar
V0RT3X
KVRAF
7415 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Canada

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:32 pm

:phones:

GreyLion
KVRAF
2985 posts since 21 May, 2004 from Deep in the Heart of Texas

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:54 pm

For anyone who thinks KVR might be becoming less civilized in contentious threads, think back to the mid-2000s up to about the mid-2010s.

There was frequently at least one enormous furball rockin' the place, with boiling vitriol being poured from castle walls, ad hominem attacks, naughty words galore, escalating to inarticulate screams and the posting of REALLY disturbing pics, people stalking each other from thread to thread, mod locks and deletions, user bans, and things I dare not mention today.

Now the worst we seem to muster is snark, sarcasm, biased statements and biased rebuttals, followed by detailed information and relatively sane discussions.

I miss the old KVR... :cry: :D

This thread has been much more digital than analog.

Ploki
KVRian
581 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:32 pm

bmanic wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:05 pm
EDIT: Never mind. Not worth it. I was just being nasty.. better to just put him on the ignore list.
hm. Out of many people he did a pretty balanced post, I don't get why would you just ignore him, except that you disagree with him?
BasariStudios wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
What a bunch of Dreamers who never even saw a real Console in their life but now all are Mastering Engineers. Some people have NO CLUE what they are talking about or have NO CLUE what a TRIM Knob does yet they have the confidence to bash Acustica or any other company. You not knowing how to use a plugin does not mean its bad.
people who bashed it know pretty well what it does tho.

IR is not a model, it's not an emulation. It's a copy, and while useful to do snapshot of something every now and then it's not the computationally most effective method to emulate something.

I can't find a good comparison for this really, but it's kinda like doing a 3D model with dynamic lightning, but instead of making it computationally you take thousands of photographs on the subject and stitch them together, so you have some "manoeuvring" ability.
It will look like the original scene in 3D, but you will never be able to zoom in, or shine a different light over it.

jens
KVRAF
19101 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:53 pm

BasariStudios wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
What a bunch of Dreamers who never even saw a real Console in their life but now all are Mastering Engineers. Some people have NO CLUE what they are talking about or have NO CLUE what a TRIM Knob does yet they have the confidence to praise Acustica
FTFY :hihi:


A lot of mimimi in this thread now...
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey

jens
KVRAF
19101 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Someone said this was Snake Oil...

Post Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:55 pm

Ploki wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:32 pm
I can't find a good comparison for this really, but it's kinda like doing a 3D model with dynamic lightning, but instead of making it computationally you take thousands of photographs on the subject and stitch them together, so you have some "manoeuvring" ability.
It will look like the original scene in 3D, but you will never be able to zoom in, or shine a different light over it.
I would say this is a really good analogy.
" It is a measurable fact. Not my opinion. And not even subtle. If you can't hear difference in tail between Valhalla and VSR reverb tail then again change your job dude." kmonkey

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