Do I “need” analog synths?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
chk071
KVRAF
19334 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:54 pm

To be honest, watching some videos about how you can fix the pitch tracking issues on the Behringer Model D (with a voltmeter) have cured me a bit about my desire to get a analog synth...

lfm
KVRAF
4962 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:20 pm

chk071 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:54 pm
To be honest, watching some videos about how you can fix the pitch tracking issues on the Behringer Model D (with a voltmeter) have cured me a bit about my desire to get a analog synth...
The suggested method in manual seems overly complicated.

Download this http://ctrlr.org/ and very easy to make five buttons with sysex commands.

You basically rightclick on panel and create a button, select to send sysex, and edit sysex and enter codes from manual.

init 1v calibration on assign output
init 4v calibration on assign output
increase voltage
decrease voltage
save and exit

And a multimeter to measure on Assign out.

And this you do once, for one synth. Then just make a copy of the panel and modify model id in sysex for synth of your choice.

But upgraded to v2 firmware for Neutron, but haven't felt I needed calibration yet anyway. I will see when rendering with stuff in daw if octaves are off.

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IncarnateX
KVRAF
3802 posts since 25 Jan, 2009 from Forgotten Realms

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:01 am

You only need analog gear if you want to be instantly famous, rich and score a lot of hot chicks.

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IncarnateX
KVRAF
3802 posts since 25 Jan, 2009 from Forgotten Realms

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:11 am

Well, since my interests for synths began in he 80s, DCO analog synth are authentic enough to me. Do not need synths that need calibration or have classic midi problems. Had the Boog for a while, no tuning problems, but lack of patch memory soon became a problem. I have 4 dco analog and 1 vco synth and no problems like those mentioned in the OP.

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4961 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:04 am

IncarnateX wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:01 am
You only need analog gear if you want to be instantly famous, rich and score a lot of hot chicks.
Yeah, that’s not going to happen :hihi:
IncarnateX wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:11 am
Well, since my interests for synths began in he 80s, DCO analog synth are authentic enough to me. Do not need synths that need calibration or have classic midi problems. Had the Boog for a while, no tuning problems, but lack of patch memory soon became a problem. I have 4 dco analog and 1 vco synth and no problems like those mentioned in the OP.
Problems?

My original posts in this thread were about bypassing the low resolution digital/MIDI controls (classic MIDI problems) and not about sound, “authenticity”, or tuning :-)
Last edited by Jace-BeOS on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4961 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:06 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:54 pm
To be honest, watching some videos about how you can fix the pitch tracking issues on the Behringer Model D (with a voltmeter) have cured me a bit about my desire to get a analog synth...
I had a bit of a negative reaction to that, myself. I’m hoping it won’t be a big issue if I follow through with acquiring modern analog hardware, but who knows... I still haven’t pulled the trigger. To much concern over the money and the actual value in life fun/entertainment it would provide.
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IncarnateX
KVRAF
3802 posts since 25 Jan, 2009 from Forgotten Realms

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:29 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:04 am
Problems?

My original posts in this thread were about bypassing the low resolution digital/MIDI controls (classic MIDI problems) and not about sound, “authenticity”, or tuning :-)
Whatever annoys you with VCOs, DCOs is the answer :tu:

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4961 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:57 pm

IncarnateX wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:29 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:04 am
Problems?

My original posts in this thread were about bypassing the low resolution digital/MIDI controls (classic MIDI problems) and not about sound, “authenticity”, or tuning :-)
Whatever annoys you with VCOs, DCOs is the answer :tu:
Nothing about any oscillators bothers me.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

Dasheesh
KVRAF
3291 posts since 22 Nov, 2012

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:16 pm

UGH. can't believe this is still going. I don't know, do you?

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IncarnateX
KVRAF
3802 posts since 25 Jan, 2009 from Forgotten Realms

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:14 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:57 pm
IncarnateX wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:29 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:04 am
Problems?

My original posts in this thread were about bypassing the low resolution digital/MIDI controls (classic MIDI problems) and not about sound, “authenticity”, or tuning :-)
Whatever annoys you with VCOs, DCOs is the answer :tu:
Nothing about any oscillators bothers me.
Oh, I see that I need to be even more specific. Whatever issue bothers you with VCO synth, including midi issues, are likely not an issue on DCOs synths but tbh, I wouldn`t know for sure, but can just confirm by my experience that I never had one.

Apart from that, your long OP makes it a little hard for me to judge what are issues or not and I do not understand the title of the thread for that reason either.

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4961 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:58 am

IncarnateX wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:14 am
Oh, I see that I need to be even more specific. Whatever issue bothers you with VCO synth,
When did I say anything bothered me about VCO synths?
IncarnateX wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:14 am
including midi issues, are likely not an issue on DCOs synths
MIDI is what introduces the problem. See below...
IncarnateX wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:14 am
but tbh, I wouldn`t know for sure, but can just confirm by my experience that I never had one.
One what?
IncarnateX wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:14 am
Apart from that, your long OP makes it a little hard for me to judge what are issues or not and I do not understand the title of the thread for that reason either.
I’m talking about control of parameters. MIDI CC is low resolution; 7-bit, so only 128 steps. 14-bit MIDI might as well not exist because seemingly nothing supports it (show me a MIDI controller that does and then show me how to set it up with my DAW and softsynths). The only way to get smooth control seems to be with synths that are analog, or synths that smooth the internal values of the CC as their low resolution knobs are turned (and this introduces latency, and only few pieces of hardware do value smoothing anyway).

There is NO WAY to control parameters in plugins *with MIDI control surfaces* without also having low resolution changes/stepping. The one exception to this was Native Instruments Kore (because it used automation parameters, not MIDI CC), which is an abandoned product.

Etc.

I’m pretty sure all this is there in the first page of this thread.
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IncarnateX
KVRAF
3802 posts since 25 Jan, 2009 from Forgotten Realms

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:01 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:58 am

I’m pretty sure all this is there in the first page of this thread.
Probably. Honestly, I did not read it that close since nothing in the first half of the OP seemed to make your baity question meaningful at glance, so I took it at face value. My bad. But now that you tell what it is all about, I find the title even more mysterious.

How about:

“Are there controllers that smooth the internal values of the CC as their low resolution knobs are turned?”

or if you insist on the analog component:

“Do I need analog synths as cntrollers to get smooth control over my VSTis?”

Seem a little less prone to “misunderstandings” to me :wink:

Well, hope you got your answers at least. Over and out.

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4961 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:21 am

IncarnateX wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:01 am
Probably. Honestly, I did not read it that close since nothing in the first half of the OP seemed to make your baity question meaningful at glance,
It honestly wasn’t meant to be bait. That’s why I put quotes around the word “need”.
IncarnateX wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:01 am
How about:

“Are there controllers that smooth the internal values of the CC as their low resolution knobs are turned?”

or if you insist on the analog component:

“Do I need analog synths as cntrollers to get smooth control over my VSTis?”

Seem a little less prone to “misunderstandings” to me :wink:
Well, I knew the answer to both of those. That’s the real problem with my thread and initial inquiry: I effectively knew the answer. But I was hoping I was going to somehow be schooled on a topic I didn’t know as well as I suspected.
IncarnateX wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:01 am
Well, hope you got your answers at least. Over and out.
Hmm. I guess I did. The feedback and discussion was actually somewhat helpful to me, as I hoped it might be. It was better than people throwing impractical theory at me, instead of actually engaging me (which happens every time I ask about where the hell 14-bit CC is actually implemented).

KVR is a decent place with decent people (once you block the worst trolls), and this thread helped me put some of my thoughts together. The real question now is:

“Can I personally justify spending money on analog synths, when I’m so poor, just to experiment in a realm of music equipment that I’ve never experienced before?” No one else can answer that for me, but I suppose someone telling me that “enjoying life is important” or “having fun with your life-enhancing hobby is worthwhile” might help. If anyone poor like me even believes that, ha ha.

New thread? “How can I, as a poor person, justify spending money on my hobby?”

:-)
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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vurt
addled muppet weed
42842 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:33 am

well, im far from rich.
im on disability benefits.

without the pleasure i get from music, both listening, making and discussing, id be lost.
i spend a lot of time alone, but because i can get caught up in the fun side without any of the hang ups or problems you describe from low resolution, i never feel lonely or bored. i am always looking forward to firing up the synths.

i think honestly, even a couple of low priced synths, eg the uno or the modular volca, might add a little pleasure to your life that surpasses the cost :)

but as you say, only you can know whether its affordable, i do know how difficult things can be when you're worrying about finances :(

Lotuzia
KVRAF
9991 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:11 am

vurt wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:33 am
well, im far from rich.
im on disability benefits.

without the pleasure i get from music, both listening, making and discussing, id be lost.
i spend a lot of time alone, but because i can get caught up in the fun side without any of the hang ups or problems you describe from low resolution, i never feel lonely or bored. i am always looking forward to firing up the synths.

i think honestly, even a couple of low priced synths, eg the uno or the modular volca, might add a little pleasure to your life that surpasses the cost :)

but as you say, only you can know whether its affordable, i do know how difficult things can be when you're worrying about finances :(
For the very 1st time, one of your posts touched my heart. :hug:
Don't do that again.
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