How to make a simpler sound?

How to make that sound...
WOTG
KVRist
32 posts since 4 Aug, 2014

Post Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:58 am

Sounds a bit far fetched, but is there anyway to take a processed sound and make it sound more simple? For example, I'm looking to take a gunshot sound effect, a more realistic one, it's processed, the quality has been stretched, but the problem is, it's sometimes harsh on the ears. Is it possible to make it sound simpler, like you hear in the Hollywood movies and video games? A simpler sound usually sounds "smoother". And I'm looking for a smoother sound without the possibility of losing quality altogether.

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26808 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:02 am

Is this different from your question from before?

viewtopic.php?t=470847
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WOTG
KVRist
32 posts since 4 Aug, 2014

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:42 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:02 am
Is this different from your question from before?

viewtopic.php?t=470847
Yes. That question was asking for a simpler way to process sound, to make it easier to process machine gun fire. This question is asking how to get a simpler sound in general, so there's no like high frequency or low frequency artifacts.

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
23697 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:09 am

WOTG wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:58 am
For example, I'm looking to take a gunshot sound effect, a more realistic one, it's processed, the quality has been stretched, but the problem is, it's sometimes harsh on the ears.
Why not use a simple, unprocessed, unstretched sound instead?

WOTG
KVRist
32 posts since 4 Aug, 2014

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:22 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:09 am
WOTG wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:58 am
For example, I'm looking to take a gunshot sound effect, a more realistic one, it's processed, the quality has been stretched, but the problem is, it's sometimes harsh on the ears.
Why not use a simple, unprocessed, unstretched sound instead?
Because the sounds I use are accurate but don't sound good with simple processing, so I have to really stretch them high with a bunch of unorthodox methods.

I'm just hoping for a way I can make the high frequency cling and hiss and low frequency boom sound mostly flat, so I have a good quality sound, but very smooth and simple in texture. I've seen many sounds like this, so I know it has to be possible somehow. No recording just gives you a sound like that, they all have to be processed, so I wonder if anyone knows any vst plugins or methods that make it possible, because I simply can't figure it out.

deastman
KVRAF
7000 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:21 pm

Can you provide a link to an example of the kind of sound you want to emulate?
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highkoo
KVRAF
3813 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:41 pm

In that other thread, when asked about the chain being used, OP wrote: 1. Effects Chainer by Acon Digital (To add more slots, because native slots go up to 16, which is not enough for me)
Effects Chainer consists of these plugins
- Monomaker by dfx (to flatten the stereo image into mono, before processing which is required for some other plugins in the chain to work properly)
- MAutoVolume by MeldaProductions (to raise or lower the audio volume evenly, which is required for processing to work properly, I have it set to lowered)
- Envelope by MDA (to add an inverse signal, to help balance uneven bass levels in every part of the sound, and to add more structure to the sound, especially as its further processed)
- MAutoVolume (to raise the volume high enough to compress)
- Dynamics by MDA (to compress the audio of course, you would think I should use a more up to date compressor, but this one works best for me, because they way it compresses completely buffs the sound up evenly working well with the Envelope plugin)
- MAutoVolume (to raise the volume high again, because the compressor lowers the audio to -40db or so, and it needs to be higher in order for the next row of plugins to work)

2. WNS Stereo by Waves (A restoration tool. Most effective way I know how to completely clean up the audio in the high frequency range. Absolutely gets rid of most crackle, and background noise, especially after it's enhanced by the compressor)

3. Maserati GTi Stereo by Waves (Normally you're supposed to use this on instruments, but for whatever odd reason, this adds more body to both the sustain and attack portions of the sound, and even helps shapes the attack portion to add more thud/pow to it, which is awesome for gunshots/explosions)

4. MAutoVolume (to again raise the volume high, because the previous plugin lowers the volume a bit, plus I want the volume high for the next plugin)

5. L3-LL Multi Stereo by Waves (Normally you're told to use a limiter as the very last thing in your chain, but the limiter works best for me at this instance. I prefer this one in particular because I like the way it separates frequencies, helping balance levels, which most limiters I tried don't do, and it adds more thump/pow to the attack portion of the sound)

6. Channel Mixer by Adobe Audition (to flatten the stereo image back to mono. Previously in the chain, creating a inverse signal using the Envelope separates the audio in M/S, and I have to change it back to mono here for the next plugins to work right)

7. Sand Brush by 4Front (This helps add and fill in high frequency detail that was loss by the WNS restoration plugin that was used earlier in the chain. It seems to work best when applied at this instance)

8. OldSkoolVerb by Voxengo (Reverb to help smooth out the clunkiness in the sound. I like this reverb over other reverbs, because this one doesn't sound too chamber-like compared to most other reverbs I tried, plus it has features that dampens the audio to add more oomph to the sound, while also brushing out some of the unnecessary high frequency crackle created by the Sand Brush plugin used previously)

9. Latency Delay by Voxengo (to fix latency caused by the OldSkoolVerb plugin)

10. MORPH VST by Zynaptiq (Why use such a strange plugin? Because it recreates the sound, so any imperfections up to this point are mostly removed, including uneven bass levels, unbalanced frequency levels, leaky reverb, any further background noise that can't be removed by the restoration plugin. I've tried many other different plugins for this very reason, but this one is new and has been a gem for me so far)

11. PT_StableUnstable by Pitch Tech (Removes most of the syntheticness caused by the MORPH plugin, so it doesn't sound strange. Can also help remove unnecessary reverb)

12. MaxxVolume Stereo by Waves (Makes the attack portion of the sound loud in comparison to the sustain portion, so it sounds like a loud BANG with a lower decaying echo like a gunshot should. Can't find any other plugin that accurately does this, so this one works best for me)

13. GTR Amp Stereo by Waves (I use this to add warmth and crisp to reverse some of the muddiness that is created by the MORPH plugin)

14. X-FDBK by Waves (I've tried many different methods, but this one is new and works just the way I want it when tweaked right. Removes any other further unnecessary high and low frequencies without actually damaging the sound)

15. DTS Neural DownMix 7.1 to Stereo 7.1 by Waves (I've tried too many plugins to attempt to accurately recreate a stereo image, and they all have some sort of flaw. This one is a new one by waves, and can completely recreate the stereo image as if the sound was recorded in stereo. So every channel, left, right, center, have no delay, no reverb, nothing, so it's just a complete stereo image. This is a gem.)

16. Currently empty
That was a couple years ago and looks like was mostly about processing various gunshot sounds, so we might be talking about something else now.
ImageImageImageImage

WOTG
KVRist
32 posts since 4 Aug, 2014

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:30 pm

deastman wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:21 pm
Can you provide a link to an example of the kind of sound you want to emulate?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mkh72fz29 ... 281%29.wav
This one might be a bit exaggerated, not sure any sound can just get like that, and I'm not even sure how they got it like that in the first place, but I love how smooth and simple the sound is for example

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ynogeadrg ... 1.wav/file
This is not the exact sound I'm going for, but it's an example of a very simple and smooth sound, highly processed at that. I can post more examples if these aren't satisfying.

My sounds sound great now, but I still don't like the overbearing hiss and boom in the high and low frequencies. There's got to be a way to smooth them out, making the sound sound more simple and "clean", I guess you can say. That way they are pleasing to all ears.

deastman
KVRAF
7000 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:40 pm

Dunno... I’m not hearing anything special in those examples. Just possibly some compressor or transient designer, eq, and reverb. I have absolutely no idea what you mean with words like smooth, simple, and clean. Those are not useful terms when dealing with audio. Better to discuss better defined aspects of sound such as waveforms, amplitude, transients, spectral content, early reflections, etc.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26808 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:22 am

highkoo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:41 pm
That was a couple years ago and looks like was mostly about processing various gunshot sounds, so we might be talking about something else now.
okay I skimmed, so rereading in depth, the first one was about simplifying a very complex and specific fx chain that wasnt working to produce the kind of gunshot sounds he wanted, this one is about not being able to produce the kind of simple gunshot sounds he wants.
im not sure if there's a very complex fx chain being used now or not, but if the gunshot sources are clean and accurate, and what's wanted is something that doesnt intrude too much into a scene, then i cant think what would be needed beyond compression and reverb to smooth transients, before whatever IRs are being used to bed with the scene of the film/game.
maybe avoid pitching the sounds down as is so common, even cut some bass.

ive seen all sorts of stuff on beefing up weapon sounds, especially with layering. maybe do the opposite.

however, i'd also suggest reading everything watson wu says in any interview anywhere.
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WOTG
KVRist
32 posts since 4 Aug, 2014

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:07 am

deastman wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:40 pm
Dunno... I’m not hearing anything special in those examples. Just possibly some compressor or transient designer, eq, and reverb. I have absolutely no idea what you mean with words like smooth, simple, and clean. Those are not useful terms when dealing with audio. Better to discuss better defined aspects of sound such as waveforms, amplitude, transients, spectral content, early reflections, etc.
Because those terms don't make sense with what I'm trying to describe

Here's another sample, this is one of my sound effects taken from a shotgun http://www.mediafire.com/file/tsb43dxpn ... o.wav/file

As you can see, the sound sounds big, clear, and clean, but there's still a level of overbearing hiss on the high frequency range that I can't remove without destroying the sound. Cutting the bass just loses structure in the sound, so I like to keep the bass to that level, but finding a way to make the sound sound simpler/smoother like in those examples I showed you, should fixed both these problems. Notice how the bass in those samples I posted sound overbearing but not distorted, same with the high end in them. I don't know how else you see sound, but that's the best way I can describe it.

WOTG
KVRist
32 posts since 4 Aug, 2014

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:10 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:22 am
highkoo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:41 pm
That was a couple years ago and looks like was mostly about processing various gunshot sounds, so we might be talking about something else now.
okay I skimmed, so rereading in depth, the first one was about simplifying a very complex and specific fx chain that wasnt working to produce the kind of gunshot sounds he wanted, this one is about not being able to produce the kind of simple gunshot sounds he wants.
im not sure if there's a very complex fx chain being used now or not, but if the gunshot sources are clean and accurate, and what's wanted is something that doesnt intrude too much into a scene, then i cant think what would be needed beyond compression and reverb to smooth transients, before whatever IRs are being used to bed with the scene of the film/game.
maybe avoid pitching the sounds down as is so common, even cut some bass.

ive seen all sorts of stuff on beefing up weapon sounds, especially with layering. maybe do the opposite.

however, i'd also suggest reading everything watson wu says in any interview anywhere.
Man forget it, I don't think people truly get this. They all say the same things, but they're lying, obviously, because no "recording" gives you those hollywood style sounds that have a simple but big clean texture to them, it takes a bunch of secret editing methods, that for some reason, no one wants to reveal, so just forget it.

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26808 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:18 am

edit : not playing with the 'i cant do it so its all a conspiracy' shite.
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26808 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:19 am

WOTG wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:10 am
whyterabbyt wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:22 am
highkoo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:41 pm
That was a couple years ago and looks like was mostly about processing various gunshot sounds, so we might be talking about something else now.
okay I skimmed, so rereading in depth, the first one was about simplifying a very complex and specific fx chain that wasnt working to produce the kind of gunshot sounds he wanted, this one is about not being able to produce the kind of simple gunshot sounds he wants.
im not sure if there's a very complex fx chain being used now or not, but if the gunshot sources are clean and accurate, and what's wanted is something that doesnt intrude too much into a scene, then i cant think what would be needed beyond compression and reverb to smooth transients, before whatever IRs are being used to bed with the scene of the film/game.
maybe avoid pitching the sounds down as is so common, even cut some bass.

ive seen all sorts of stuff on beefing up weapon sounds, especially with layering. maybe do the opposite.

however, i'd also suggest reading everything watson wu says in any interview anywhere.
Man forget it, I don't think people truly get this. They all say the same things, but they're lying, obviously, because no "recording" gives you those hollywood style sounds that have a simple but big clean texture to them, it takes a bunch of secret editing methods, that for some reason, no one wants to reveal, so just forget it.
oh, ffs, a lunatic. waste of everyone's time. forgotten.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

Shabdahbriah
KVRAF
4920 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle

Re: How to make a simpler sound?

Post Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:45 am

Dude, please... :roll:

What he [whyterabbyt] said below, and what a very lengthy (and time consuming) explanation by someone who does this very thing (in the other thread) tried to convey, is essentially what you will have to work with/deal with. full-stop.

The examples you gave "shotgun-1" sounds like it was done in a field/out-doors. Your example "shotgun2-stereo", aside from being nearly twice as long, sounds like it was processed, or done in an open-walled parking garage. Big difference.
WOTG wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:10 am
whyterabbyt wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:22 am
highkoo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:41 pm
That was a couple years ago and looks like was mostly about processing various gunshot sounds, so we might be talking about something else now.
okay I skimmed, so rereading in depth, the first one was about simplifying a very complex and specific fx chain that wasnt working to produce the kind of gunshot sounds he wanted, this one is about not being able to produce the kind of simple gunshot sounds he wants.
im not sure if there's a very complex fx chain being used now or not, but if the gunshot sources are clean and accurate, and what's wanted is something that doesnt intrude too much into a scene, then i cant think what would be needed beyond compression and reverb to smooth transients, before whatever IRs are being used to bed with the scene of the film/game.
maybe avoid pitching the sounds down as is so common, even cut some bass.

ive seen all sorts of stuff on beefing up weapon sounds, especially with layering. maybe do the opposite.

however, i'd also suggest reading everything watson wu says in any interview anywhere.
Man forget it, I don't think people truly get this. They all say the same things, but they're lying, obviously, because no "recording" gives you those hollywood style sounds that have a simple but big clean texture to them, it takes a bunch of secret editing methods, that for some reason, no one wants to reveal, so just forget it.
Last edited by Shabdahbriah on Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:02 am, edited 4 times in total.
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