Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

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JCJR
KVRAF
2557 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:40 am

The video on first page demo four behringer model d. He shows some limitations of the behringer midi chaining and a solution using a poly midi to CV/gate module and lots of spaghetti.

If you didn't mind software help it could be another way to overcome the "bugs" in behringer's midi chaining and also customize the poly behavior.

Many possibilities but ferinstance reaper allows user written midi plugins in quite easy js "simplified c" syntax. There are probably already js plugins that do what is desired, or close enough to be easy to modify, and not hard to write from scratch.

The plugin would maybe do round-robin note channel mapping, maybe channels 1 thru 4 for a four mono synth stack. It would also duplicate received pitch bend and mod wheel messages to all 4 channels.

Then just set each mono synth to its usual mono mode, assign them to channels 1 thru 4, and if they have midi thru then daisy chain all the synths from a single midi interface output port. If for whatever reason midi thru don't work as expected, you would need a dumb midi splitter or drive them from four ports of a multiport midi interface.

You would still have to set the knobs four times for the four synths but if you would be using reaper anyway it would be smart customizable poly to mono without having to buy a poly midi to CV box and hook up lots of CV/gate spaghetti.

Other sequencers may offer similar auto mapping capability. Just nowadays reaper is the only one I know a little bit about.

lfm
KVRAF
4948 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:55 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:20 am
Hmm... i actually thought the Crave had external audio too.

Edit: Looks like it has it though (unless i miss something which is likely). Check this picture:
2nd input in the patch bay bottom row.
How right you are, thanks for correcting my poor investigation.

So there you go, Crave can be pipelined with other source for oscillators.
https://www.gearnews.com/namm-2019-behr ... nthesizer/
Enlarge this image a bit down the page and you can read all panel.

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egbert101
KVRAF
2289 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:12 pm

JCJR wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:40 am
Many possibilities but ferinstance reaper allows user written midi plugins in quite easy js "simplified c" syntax. There are probably already js plugins that do what is desired, or close enough to be easy to modify, and not hard to write from scratch.
Yes indeed, I did research exactly on this, as I use Reaper myself. There is a free plugin for reaper that can do this from here:

poly_mono_midi_router: Dynamic poly/mono MIDI router (see tutorial by David Else).
https://www.taletn.com/reaper/mono_synth/

And tutorial can be found here:
https://www.learndigitalaudio.com/make- ... -in-reaper
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egbert101
KVRAF
2289 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:53 pm

Okay, now I'm beginning to consider the new Korg Minilogue XD as another option. Two VCOs, but also apparently a modified filter which retains the bottom end when resonance is turned up. If that isn't a problem well then the earlier Minilogue is now cheaper.

You have four voice polyphony for around the same price as four Craves (or less at £565.00), and you even have that weird digital oscillator thrown in with the two analog oscillators.

Only downside is that it has a two-pole filter which isn't a complete deal breaker for me anyway. For the price, it's at least an option to consider before committing to poly chaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuJIjMjvgvg
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chk071
KVRAF
18895 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:57 pm

lfm wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:55 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:20 am
Hmm... i actually thought the Crave had external audio too.

Edit: Looks like it has it though (unless i miss something which is likely). Check this picture:
2nd input in the patch bay bottom row.
How right you are, thanks for correcting my poor investigation.

So there you go, Crave can be pipelined with other source for oscillators.
https://www.gearnews.com/namm-2019-behr ... nthesizer/
Enlarge this image a bit down the page and you can read all panel.
:hyper:

Now i'm wondering what would be the easiest way to stream my softies' audio into it. :hihi:

JCJR
KVRAF
2557 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:05 pm

egbert101 wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:53 pm
Okay, now I'm beginning to consider the new Korg Minilogue XD as another option
[...]
and you even have that weird digital oscillator thrown in with the two analog oscillators.

Only downside is that it has a two-pole filter which isn't a complete deal breaker for me anyway. For the price, it's at least an option to consider before committing to poly chaining.
Dunno if the Minilogue XD digital oscillator is similar or identical to the one in the Prologue. The brief snippets and descriptions, it may indeed be identical, but at least in the same ballpark. That FM/PD/Scannable Wavetable oscillator was one of the biggest features that impressed me about the Prologue so if indeed the Minilogue XD has exactly the same (or very similar) with no unforseen gotchas, IMO it is a major feature. You can youtube some prologue user-created wavetable demos that are nice. Maybe not as flexible as I imagine, but seems maybe possible to do old wave-scanning as well as FM/PD type sounds.

So far as 2 pole filter, its a matter of taste but two of my favorite old synths, old white face odyssey and oberheim SEM both had 2 pole filters. Well I also enjoyed the tone of Yamaha CS 50, 60 and 80, which were also 2 pole filters.

I don't pay much attention to analog nowadays but long ago when I was "into it" was of the opinion that 2 pole filter offers a wider palette of sounds if it is an either/or choice between 2 or 4 pole filter-- With 4 pole filters the cutoff often seemed too drastic to me, easy to make patches a little too dark or a little too bright, but hard to get tones dialed in to the "Goldilocks Zone".

Or looking at it another way, back then there were no samplers or wavetable synths (which mere mortals could afford) so if you were trying to get imitative sounds "kinda sorta close" to real woodwinds, strings, plectrum instruments, the best results I could personally get with 4 pole filters always seemed to have a more artificial electronic sound than the same thru a 2 pole filter. Anyway nowadays that is a silly consideration because it would be smarter just to play a sampler/rompler or some other technique, rather than try to make imitative sounds with analog subtractive synthesis.

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egbert101
KVRAF
2289 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:25 pm

JCJR wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:05 pm
Dunno if the Minilogue XD digital oscillator is similar or identical to the one in the Prologue. The brief snippets and descriptions, it may indeed be identical, but at least in the same ballpark.
[...]
I don't pay much attention to analog nowadays but long ago when I was "into it" was of the opinion that 2 pole filter offers a wider palette of sounds if it is an either/or choice between 2 or 4 pole filter-- With 4 pole filters the cutoff often seemed too drastic to me, easy to make patches a little too dark or a little too bright, but hard to get tones dialed in to the "Goldilocks Zone".
So I am definitely 100% sold on the Minilogue XD. My assumption is that they took the filter and step sequencer from the Monologue, and the multi-engine from the Prologue.

I'm not feeling it with the Prologue demos yet, and it might just be that newer filter.
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deastman
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6993 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:03 pm

If you’re on a Mac, Polymer is a really slick solution for poly chaining.

http://polymer-app.com
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zerocrossing
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9394 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:52 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:21 am
The reason polychain interest me is that there is not a single VCO poly analog synth available today that I want to buy.
Really? Seems like there’s such a great choice these days. Better than any other time.
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pdxindy
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14956 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:35 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:52 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:21 am
The reason polychain interest me is that there is not a single VCO poly analog synth available today that I want to buy.
Really? Seems like there’s such a great choice these days. Better than any other time.
Yeah, it does seem that way... I bought a Moog One... then I returned it. I very much like the sound of the Baloran River... but it is too obscure, too hard to get or service. Etc.

lfm
KVRAF
4948 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:54 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:35 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:52 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:21 am
The reason polychain interest me is that there is not a single VCO poly analog synth available today that I want to buy.
Really? Seems like there’s such a great choice these days. Better than any other time.
Yeah, it does seem that way... I bought a Moog One... then I returned it. I very much like the sound of the Baloran River... but it is too obscure, too hard to get or service. Etc.
Isn't it all about we want same, same - but different?
Some evolution of what was - and brought something new we did not hear before.

For some "VCO poly analog" is just boring - we want modern stuff, unusuall ways of cross modulations and routings.

I've spent 12 hours completely hooked by Neutron since I got it friday - and what it offers.
Hours just pass in minutes, kind of.

And started to get aquainted enough to start be creative for real. Looking not only for playable stuff, but more like foley kind of sounds that can be used as pads for video. Lingering about creating something to layer other things with.

We've been fed these very playable and useful stuff for some decades now - and modular now can be made for reasonable cost affordable to anybody.

I found this more than 10 years ago as a free plugin at the time:
https://karmafx.net/

But it didn't click sitting with a mouse.

Now with Neutron a bulb was lit - and it was fun to do this.
I was looking at Matrix Brute, that is an creation by ethusiasts for sure - and still cross modulation made simple - but not routing.

You have three four cables hanging from a couple of outputs.
Now you go....what happends it this goes there....?
And you can hear the wheels in your head turning.

And I move over to Nordlead 2X or KingKorg with new ideas to modulate as well.
And what happends if you run Hammond and play with drawbars as one extra oscillator?

I think I will get another Neutron or Model D - not sure yet.

That is what I think is going on....

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egbert101
KVRAF
2289 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:57 am

I don't know about anyone else, but a four voice Crave with keyboard at a mid-range price would go down extremely well with me, as an affordable alternative to a Moog One.
Last edited by egbert101 on Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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egbert101
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2289 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:58 am

Double post.
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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9394 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:38 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:35 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:52 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:21 am
The reason polychain interest me is that there is not a single VCO poly analog synth available today that I want to buy.
Really? Seems like there’s such a great choice these days. Better than any other time.
Yeah, it does seem that way... I bought a Moog One... then I returned it. I very much like the sound of the Baloran River... but it is too obscure, too hard to get or service. Etc.
Yeah, I get that. The Moog One seems... like maybe they bit off more than they could chew. Sounds good to me, but I’ve not been in a room with one, and to be honest, I’m not hearing $8000, even though it seems super well appointed. But, offerings from Sequental seem good to me, and although it’s a hybrid, the 002 can sound very analog.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14956 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Poly Chaining Analog Monophonic Synths: Good or Bad Idea?

Post Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:29 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:38 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:35 pm
zerocrossing wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:52 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:21 am
The reason polychain interest me is that there is not a single VCO poly analog synth available today that I want to buy.
Really? Seems like there’s such a great choice these days. Better than any other time.
Yeah, it does seem that way... I bought a Moog One... then I returned it. I very much like the sound of the Baloran River... but it is too obscure, too hard to get or service. Etc.
Yeah, I get that. The Moog One seems... like maybe they bit off more than they could chew. Sounds good to me, but I’ve not been in a room with one, and to be honest, I’m not hearing $8000, even though it seems super well appointed. But, offerings from Sequental seem good to me, and although it’s a hybrid, the 002 can sound very analog.
For me the Moog One fan noise was way too noisy...my studio is very quiet and I like it that way. It was also super buggy... the sort of buggy that was minimum 6 months to a year of updates to get everything sorted.

I'm curious about what Sequential comes with next. The P12 didn't quite do it for me. Didn't love the filter and wished there were two of them per voice. The PX tempts me. I really like the UI's on their synths and I want to get one of their synths. So I'm waiting to see what they come with next.

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