how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

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djanthonyw
KVRAF
7035 posts since 20 Jul, 2004

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:34 am

It’s a good opportunity to clean house and get rid of things you don’t actually use.
You are currently reading my signature.

elassi
KVRAF
2143 posts since 8 Sep, 2009

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:00 am

kevvvvv wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:49 am
Replies very much appreciated here.
It took me months to migrate (old machine --> new machine) because on purpose I decided to relax on it. My particular "fear" of forgetting to de-register a software and thus run into trouble was my main driver here.

Started with the DAWs and the plugins I always use and then added more and more plugins when I wanted them in a project or tried to load an existing one which then asked for missing plugins ABCD...

As soon as those plugins were on the new machine I've deinstalled and also de-registered them on the old one if the latter was necessary. That way I always had an overview what still had to be moved (by just looking into my VST folder and program directory) and - like djanthonyw said - profited from a clean install.

It was also helpful to think twice about folder structures for plugin data (mostly samples) and temp folders. The new machine is, compared to the old one, now perfectly organized and the garbage left over from years of demoing obscure plugins didn't survive.

To make it short: Take your time. You won't regret it.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4629 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:51 am

It's probably taken about a month to migrate to a new machine - though I opted for a clean install on the new one. I also wasn't in a tearing hurry to get everything set up and some things I've simply decided to not reinstall.

The old machine is under the stairs on the network and I've dipped it into it a number of times having remembered there are presets or whatever on the old machine (after an initial splurge of transferring sample libraries).

As you'd expect machine-locked C/R software is the biggest PITA - though with AAS, PA and Waves you can pretty much do the reauthorisation in one hit. Dongled-stuff works just fine and serials need a bit of care and attention but at least they aren't C/R (and if you're on Windows probably highly amenable to just moving registry entries over).

I also made a list of things that need deauthorising vs those that don't to speed up the process. This is one of the most irritating parts of the process - does this thing need deauthorising? Where is it written down? How do you do it?

cleverr1
KVRist
291 posts since 29 Nov, 2005

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:18 am

I moved into a new DAW at the weekend. I fitted the old DAW drive and took a directory listing of the vst plugins folders to use as a baseline. I made some decisions about plugins I never use. So after about a days effort I’m more than 95% there and it’s just a case of installing anything that old projects need.
One of the best things about the new DAW is that I picked up a Magma 4 slot chassis which is working great with tc powercore. So that’s legacy PCI sorted for good here.

Yeah it’s a long boring process, but it’s all clean and there’s nothing unused in there.

Go for it, feel the pain - it’ll be worth it;)

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Synthman2000
KVRian
575 posts since 27 Apr, 2016

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:55 pm

It does feel daunting that is for sure. You will know when the moment is right for yourself.

I prepped in advance for a clean W10 64 install ona brand new HDD, I downloaded all the installers and created text documents with passwords and logins for each plug in, which onces use authorization managers, iloks, eLicensor, etc. I did this over a month or so and then it made the install much less hassle.

It was a great thing to do, I ditched all 32 bit went 64 throughout and my system is more stable than ever.I replaced the HDD with a Samsung 850 PRO and found Win10 would work with the existing motherboard, old i7 about 6 years old but the machine still works pretty well and I do quite heavy projects, 100-150 tracks typical.

Just organize yourself, redo your passwords, commit and deal with it.

You will actually enjoy it once you have committed, even the install.

With a new faster PC it will be all the merrier. :tu:

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V0RT3X
KVRAF
7535 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Canada

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:50 pm

kevvvvv wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:16 am
I'd like to buy a new high spec windows 10 machine. Dream machine. Sounds good.

But the very idea of reinstalling EVERYTHING seems like a bitter nightmare :cry:

Is there any easy way round this?

I have the usual couple of hundred or so plugs (yeah, only), inc loads of synths, more kontakt than I can count, plus endless wav files and other stuff (haven't even mentioned effects)

And all the registrations & downloads, complete with lost passwords, key files, urls, pdfs etc

I just don't see it as humanly possible. Endless time & error.

How do the pros do it?

begging-for-help = kevvvvv
Honestly I'd recommend you buy a password manager so you can store all your licence & log-in information in it. This way if YOU do have to reinstall it will be less painful.

As far as re-installation, well it's not as bad as it might seem. Most companies such as NI & Arturia have installation managers that download and install the products for you. All you need to do is download the manager and login using your credentials.

U-he Products are pretty easy but you need to register plugin to plugin by entering your Name and Serial. Pretty straight forward.
Sound Experiments -> |https://soundcloud.com/user-841453413|
Join the Anti-EDM movement :borg:

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3499 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:34 pm

kevvvvv wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:16 am
I'd like to buy a new high spec windows 10 machine. Dream machine. Sounds good.

But the very idea of reinstalling EVERYTHING seems like a bitter nightmare :cry:

Is there any easy way round this?

I have the usual couple of hundred or so plugs (yeah, only), inc loads of synths, more kontakt than I can count, plus endless wav files and other stuff (haven't even mentioned effects)

And all the registrations & downloads, complete with lost passwords, key files, urls, pdfs etc

I just don't see it as humanly possible. Endless time & error.

How do the pros do it?

begging-for-help = kevvvvv

First of all, we need to split this problem in to two main areas:

1: Hardware transfer.
2: Software authorization.

They are both very different domains. They are discrete problems, even though they are inextricably intertwined.

The good news is that we live in the age of Software Virtualization so things that were not possible even 10 years ago are a breeze to do today. Not saying it's easy, but it's doable. This is with regard to problem 1.

With regard to problem 2, the bad news is that you will still have to go through the PITA that is software registration once problem 1 has been solved. It will be easier for some vendors than others. YMMV. There's no way around it.

I'm no expert in this, in fact I've yet to do it for proper. But I've been researching it for a while and I plan to do this for a few new boxes I am building: winXP, win7 and winX. It is going to be a nightmare, but don't let that complicate the strategy for you.

Thankfully there are programs that can really ease system transfer and migration of whole systems to dissimilar hardware. It helps to be a bit familiar with virtualisation software like VirtualBox or VMware or VirtualPC - those are the big 3 hard virtualisation softwares for the average man. At least to visualise what is possible, but in practice, you won't need to know these programs at all. But for some they may even want to have virtual images of these to put on to new systems.

Any program that will allow you to migrate a whole OS (operating system) to dissimilar hardware will be working along those lines - offering some kind of image to virtual image that you can even test out on the same machine before you bite the bullet. This may be a bit involved for you, but I'm just throwing this out there for others as well.

There are probably lots of programs that do this, but I have narrowed it down to three that I am familiar with:

1: Terabyte Unlimited.
2: Easus ToDo.
3: DiskGenius.

I'm not talking about the virtualisation software here, which you will of course need to run a virtual image should you make one. I'm talking about programs that can make virtual images to be used later by these vendors. All of these programs do backups and cloning. The virtualisation part is a bonus. But it's also why they are good candidates for migrating a system as well.

Some of these programs you might not have heard of. Some you might even own copies of but still not know that they offer this function. Their websites are next to useless lost in arcane BS. Now I'm not saying there aren't other programs that don't do this whole system transfer thing, but these are the three I'm testing out at the moment.

First of all, Terabyte. I actually own this program and it's a full on suite of backup imaging/cloning, multi-booting/partitioning goodness. It works. It's a bit more bare metal than your usual fancy GUI stuff. But it's quick and no nonsense. It works for windows and linux. It has a thing called the OS deployment tool and this is what is of interest to us here:

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/tbosdt.htm

TBOSDT Professional is a component available in the paid version of the TeraByte Drive Image Backup and Restore Suite. and BootIt Bare Metal. The Professional version gives you everything in the standard version plus the powerful TBScript™ engine and extensions that allow you to provide interactivity, logic, and mathematics in your scripts.

This versions also includes several scripts including those for installing Windows drivers to support hardware independent restores to different hardware.

It is very reasonably priced for the full suite - about 40 bucks/quid. And for that you get the backup solution along with everything else. There are videos on the site showing how you can take your image and clone it to a virtual one for either one of the big name virtualisation softwares. See 'virtual machine creation' on this page: https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm

Just to give you a rough idea. These people don't explain it very well and it's very confusing, but somewhere in there is the ability to transfer your OS to dissimilar hardware.

... for installing Windows drivers to support hardware independent restores to different hardware.

How well does it work? How easy is it to get it to work? I have no idea - I'll get back to you on that. Just throwing this out there as a possibility. I think this is probably the most geekiest of all the three programs. But it's my first port of call, because a: I already own the software, and b: I trust this software like no other and know it works flawlessly. It's my no.1 backup solution and has not failed me yet.

Another one I have used and that I also trust is no.2 - Easus ToDo. They are a Chinese company and they provided a free version a while back which they pulled and stopped supporting. v3.5 was the gem. They, even back then, had the ability to take your image and make a virtualised clone of it. Now they charge money for it.

It's a great no nonsense program, very fast. I've only used it for backups, but I've no doubt it would be a good solution for whole OS tranfers.

https://www.easeus.com/todo-backup-reso ... drive.html

I want to copy my Windows 8 hard drive to a new hard drive and have my PC boot from the new hard drive.

They have several articles on doing this, but I'm not at home now and it took me 20 minutes to find this one. Excuse their dodgy English.

I tried to rebuild one of the images that I had into a virtual drive, but I needed some extra addons for VMware I think - probably need the paid version, I'm not sure. Maybe not. But this looks like a good option to look at for transferring a whole system none the less.

Finally, there is DiskGenius. You will need the 100 bucks version of the program to do this, even though you can get a very nice free version of the proggy that does a shed load of disk utilities. I'm going to take advantage of the 30 day free trial version and if it works as well as I think it will, I will bite the bullet and pay a 100 bucks for it.

It certainly looks like it might be the easiest one of the three to achieve what we are trying to do. But again, the tutorials and even the ability to do this is hidden in arcane BS corporate powerpoint slides. You need to dl the program and see that you can build VM (virtual machine) images out of your disk images and restore them. They don't make it easy. I hadn't even heard of this program before last week.

I'll post up the stuff I found on their site when I find it again, it's there somewhere. Just dl the program and see for yourself - it can do it - or some version of it.

Again, no idea how well it works, or how easy it works. It's a 100 bucks as well don't forget. But money well spent, if, like me, you are planning to use it for a few systems. And on top of all that it's probably the most useful suite of disk utils you could ever hope for. I think it's worth it.

But first of all I'll be trying my trusty Terabyte Unlimited OSDT that I already own.

I'll probably then try the DiskGenius one. And the Easus ToDo one last.

Before all that I aim to mess about with portable VM images with both VirtualBox and VMWare. I may even consider buying VMWare if I have to as well on top if needed.

Anyway, that's all problem domain number 1. And that's the easy bit!

I'm sorry I can't help with the re-registering and re-authorizing of all the other software on your system. Some will work and some won't.

Some quick advice (that has probably already been given) de-register and de-authorize whatever you can before you migrate. Others that have done this before will give better advice than I can on this.

Hopefully I've put forward a few options that you or others didn't know about as well, at least with regard to the hardware issue. So far, I haven't found any program that I think will work as well as these three candidates for OS migration to new hardware.

To a noob, I'd take them in this order:

1: DiskGenius. (most expensive - $99)
2: Easus ToDo. ($29 - that includes backup too)
3: Terabyte Unlimited OSDT. ($49 for the whole suite [and superb Linux tools])

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V0RT3X
KVRAF
7535 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Canada

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:23 pm

Honestly the above is a bit overkill, why not just upgrade to the latest Windows 10 and use what works.
Sound Experiments -> |https://soundcloud.com/user-841453413|
Join the Anti-EDM movement :borg:

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3499 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:06 pm

V0RT3X wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:23 pm
Honestly the above is a bit overkill, why not just upgrade to the latest Windows 10 and use what works.
Image

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jancivil
KVRAF
17528 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:00 pm

If I even felt I had to read that whole post to accomplish this (which was rather minor in my case, recently) I would seriously wonder where I took the kind of wrong turn that led me here.

Kaine
KVRAF
1861 posts since 4 Nov, 2004 from Manchester

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:39 am

:ud:

So, just to be clear. What's being suggested here is running an image of his old W8 OS build, under W10 as a workaround for porting across the software from the old to the new install?

Doesn't seem like the best use of resources long term.

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jancivil
KVRAF
17528 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:15 am

Well, on a basic level if you have a situation that's so hard to copy over to a similar enough system, you've experienced what they call mission creep in a big way, and like Anthony said above it's a good time to reassess what out of hundreds of plugins you actually are using. I don't know what authorization has to happen with those many things, I have things which were rather automatic, eg., Native Access and FXpansion's manager (and a dongle ;)). I've cloned my whole drive before to have two similar but not identical boot drives without all that shite and I didn't have to throw money at it, for that matter.

To be fair this seems definitely more of a problem with a Windows system for every reason. What I did was not ideal, either, I'm an idiot. "it took a month", JFC. It took me an afternoon and now I know of an easier path to the same.


Long term, yeah, a disk image? Surely no.

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V0RT3X
KVRAF
7535 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Canada

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:14 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:06 pm
V0RT3X wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:23 pm
Honestly the above is a bit overkill, why not just upgrade to the latest Windows 10 and use what works.
Image
:D
Sound Experiments -> |https://soundcloud.com/user-841453413|
Join the Anti-EDM movement :borg:

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3499 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:26 pm

jancivil wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:00 pm
If I even felt I had to read that whole post to accomplish this (which was rather minor in my case, recently) I would seriously wonder where I took the kind of wrong turn that led me here.
You think that's bad?

You didn't spend 2 hours out of your life writing it!

You just spent 20 seconds out of your life choosing to ignore it.

Then another 2 minutes out of said life to write a post about it.

:-)


But I get your point, and you're not wrong.

It's not for everyone.

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3499 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: how the &$%! do i migrate computers???

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:39 pm

Kaine wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:39 am
:ud:

So, just to be clear. What's being suggested here is running an image of his old W8 OS build, under W10 as a workaround for porting across the software from the old to the new install?

Doesn't seem like the best use of resources long term.
Yeah, the OP has a particular use case. And even that is quite vague really for us to give a detailed answer. I was just throwing some stuff out there as I've been researching a similar thing myself recently.

The stuff I posted may or may not be much use to him. It might help others who check in to see what's what. Maybe not.

It's one thing migrating an OS to a similar OS on dissimilar hardware, another whole bag of fish to want to migrate to a dissimilar OS on top. Might be wrong about that as well, but I defer to your greater experience Kaine - I think that was the point you were making?

To be fair, I'd never offer advice on this, as I have no experience in it, but I know it's a can of worms. But I was surprised to see that great advances have been made lately. One of the good things about winX is that it keeps booting and rebooting while it scans for new and appropriate drivers. I might be wrong about that as well. Don't listen to me.

The idea being that as long as you have all of your system files, it will fill in the gaps of any requisite drivers to get you up and running.

But going from one OS to another is going to be a whole lot more complicated. But it might be doable? I'm out of my depth here.

I'm only thinking about migrating from win7 to win7 or winXP to winXP - I wouldn't in my wildest dreams even attempt to migrate to another OS. That's adding pain on to hurt and extra hardship. It can probably be done though. But we're back at the point of 'just start from scratch - it's easier'.

I'm willing to be educated though. It's a nice dream.

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