Do I “need” analog synths?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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Jace-BeOS
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4936 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:51 am

zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:03 pm
Why never? Yeah, they’re expensive, but good hardware instruments are expensive.
Yes, never. We are talking many thousands here. The Haken Continuum is permanently out of my reach. The new “lower cost” pseudo-two-finger mini version is inferior and still insanely expensive.
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:03 pm
I’ve had a Rise 49 for a long time now and I’ve yet to have a single issue with it. It’s as solidly built as anything that I’ve ever owned. YOLO dude. Save up. Also, you don’t need a computer if you have an MPE synth like a Micromonsta or 002.
How do you not need a computer? Roli devices are USB or Bluetooth. No MIDI connectors.
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:03 pm
The Rise Block starts at about $300. Not that bad.
I don’t want the block. I don’t like the 24 keys, (should be 25), the lack of weight to hold it in place, or the missing controls found on the regular models.
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:03 pm
Like I said, save up. There’s no reason you can’t continue on with what you’re doing until you have the cash to get something fun. Hell, look at the Microfreak. $300! Polyphonic aftertouch and a hybrid synth that sounds amazing.
On disability income? I’m technically not allowed to save up. Tax rebates come once per year and are shrinking too.

The Microfreak does have my attention. Is the filter controlled digitally? If so, is there stepping or high resolution? I know the oscillators are digital.
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:03 pm
Well, happiness comes from within, blah blah blah, but as an artist, I can tell you that unhappiness can come from wrestling with gear that won’t do what you want it to do. That said, a real musician will make music with what ever they can get their hands on.
Yeah, but is it fun? I make music but I don’t have fun with the process.
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:03 pm
No one “needs” analog synths. Like I mentioned before, you can get some of that Kore functionality in Maschine and it will run on your current system.
Some of what functionality? High resolution knobs that manipulate full-resolution plugin automation? Besides, note where I said Kore is too much menu diving and configuration for my taste anyway... Maschine is more of the same.
zerocrossing wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:03 pm
...but I’ve also spent years being broke too and I always seemed to manage making cool noise with whatever I could get my hands on.
Again: fun and pleasure working with the tools, and high resolution adjustments (not stepped digital adjustments) is what I’m going on about. I’ve been making music all this time. I just sick of the limitations and menu diving. And yeah, that’s eating away at my motivation.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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justin3am
KVRAF
10630 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:50 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:51 am
I make music but I don’t have fun with the process.
Having read your responses here and in other threads, I don't think you will. At least not with your current mindset.

I mean ultimately, I think you understand that this isn't about analog synths and I don't think it's really about tools at all. You have to decide how you want to proceed. You can either find a way to get that enjoyment from yourself, with any set of tools or you can decide that making music is not always an enjoyable process for you... even that can work, if you are satisfied with the end result.

Chances are, you will continue to try different tools and find issues with each that will prevent you from having the experience you seek. You can either choose to be blocked by those obstacles or to plow through them. Whichever path you choose (and really I'm being quite reductionist, it's not like, a binary choice), it will probably be difficult but you can choose to look at it like a rewarding challenge or not.

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egbert101
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2289 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:05 pm

Fortunately I have other loves besides music, including cinema, games and writing. Taking up a fresh art (for example photography), and running with it for three or six months, and then returning back to music, keeps things nice and fresh. I always find the visual arts a far bigger source of inspiration than music, even though music (or synthesizers) is my main love in life. And I think it is most definitely analog (in all its forms, whether tape, effects, subtractive synthesis) that is the inspiring component. While digital is stunning, it doesn't put goosebumps down my arms.
<list all your stupid gear here>

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4936 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:38 pm

egbert101 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:05 pm
Fortunately I have other loves besides music, including cinema, games and writing.
:tu: Me too... but I can’t do gaming. My PC is too old. The last games I bought are from 2008 and 2011. They barely run. I sometimes have fun with them, but the low frame rate is really bugging my eyes and interfering with gameplay. I HATE PCs and swore to never build another PC. Yet, I priced a PC upgrade: around $600 on B&H’s website. You know, half of the very same money I’m planning to spend on music equipment. :dog:

Does gaming provide enough life satisfaction to spend money re-building a PC just for gaming? I mentioned this in my first post. I can’t bear the thought of spending that money for just gaming. That’s $600 I then cannot spend on studio gear.

Writing: I’ve had several novels of story ideas banging around in my head for most of my life. However, the end result takes so much more time; it feels so much less productive. I can share a song with friends and family after 24 hours of music studio effort, but writing a book takes mulitple years (of hard work), during which there’s not much to show off to prove you’re being productive.

I’m also trying to get a companion to write with me, but she’s too depressed about her own life situation and feeling guilty about not being productive with the work she does with her partner. I can relate. Most of my demotivation around the arts comes from my family raising me to think that the arts aren’t worthwhile activities to spend time on because they don’t generate an income (and I’m in poverty). But she also has cancer, and therefore a shortened lifespan with which to get things done (and she has mostly lived for the convenience of the situation and for other people, not for herself). :( :(
egbert101 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:05 pm
Taking up a fresh art (for example photography), and running with it for three or six months, and then returning back to music, keeps things nice and fresh.
I totally agree with you. Doing something new for a while makes sense.

Photography is another of my hobbies/interests. I even went to school for a (useless) 2-year certificate program. It might’ve even became a career path, either as a contract photographer (is that like a contract killer? :hihi:) or artist (you know, because art is something we can live off of, ha ha ha ha). But... I get nothing accomplished with photography either. Similar reason:

I tried to do some photography this evening. I pulled some dirty C64 parts out of my garage and decided to photograph them before cleaning them (I like photos of broken & decaying technology). End result? Frustration. I have even less of the necessary equipment for this hobby.

When I upgraded to a Canon DSLR t5i (from a Canon PowerShot Pro-1), I got better quality hardware... which also demands better quality light (more pixels = less light available to each pixel). I wasn’t expecting that when I bought the camera. I only just confirmed this is the problem about an hour ago (despite it being a major roadblock since I bought the camera).

I do not have studio lighting. The lights I do have are shockingly unhelpful (if I don’t want grainy images; an ISO above 400 just looks terrible to me). Then there’s the tripod. It’s a video camera tripod and it is infuriatingly clumsy. All the low light photography I used to do with my Canon Pro-1... not only can I not seem to do that with this “semi-pro” DSLR, I can no longer tolerate my garbagey tripod.

A full-frame DSLR would have been a better choice. More light captured. Well, I couldn’t afford the full-frame cameras (and I really wanted the flip out LCD; so much of my style is based on being able to frame shots with the camera at odd angles, and the camera makers had some kind of refusal to do the flip-out LCD on their full frame cameras, as if that made them nothing but amateur garbage).

I’ve had lights and a proper tripod on my wishlist for ages, but I’ve been far more interested in music for the last several years because:

Just after finally spending money on the new camera, my 21” CRT died. :dog: Essentially, just after spending a lot of money, I needed to spend even more money :dog: . So, for years, I didn’t have a computer to work on photography (13” MacBook Pro is too damn small for much of anything). I finally bought a used 27” iMac about a year ago, but, by then I had gotten so frustrated with the light demands of my new (no longer new) camera, and the clumsiness of my shitty tripod, that I stopped having any interest in taking photos. Occasionally I do nature photography (mostly insects). My photo impulses were mostly killed by expectations of frustration.

This is actually very similar to my music production problem: I have SUFFERED to make art. None of this ever came easily to me and I have worked with what I could afford. I have STRUGGLED to produce creative works. It’s not like I’m lazy. It’s not like I give up easily. Or, I didn’t. I’ve just gotten so f**king fed-the-f**k-up with clumsy tools. It has killed my patience, my tolerance, and my motivation.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4936 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:40 pm

justin3am wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:50 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:51 am
I make music but I don’t have fun with the process.
Having read your responses here and in other threads, I don't think you will. At least not with your current mindset.

I mean ultimately, I think you understand that this isn't about analog synths and I don't think it's really about tools at all. You have to decide how you want to proceed. You can either find a way to get that enjoyment from yourself, with any set of tools or you can decide that making music is not always an enjoyable process for you... even that can work, if you are satisfied with the end result.

Chances are, you will continue to try different tools and find issues with each that will prevent you from having the experience you seek. You can either choose to be blocked by those obstacles or to plow through them. Whichever path you choose (and really I'm being quite reductionist, it's not like, a binary choice), it will probably be difficult but you can choose to look at it like a rewarding challenge or not.
Valid points, but, I’m looking for more options. I have spent plenty of time working with what I have.

Meh. Just go read my long message above...
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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pekbro
KVRAF
2410 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:07 pm

You can play games on any computer, you just need the right games. Depending on your interests.
Interestingly games are often right up there with drugs and alcohol when escape is what one is seeking.
At the same time, they can be wonderful diversions and great inspiration for creativity imho.

My all time favorite game is probably Dwarf Fortress a marvel of engineering actually...

mystran
KVRAF
5219 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:29 pm

pekbro wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:07 pm
My all time favorite game is probably Dwarf Fortress a marvel of engineering actually...
Dwarf Fortress can get ridiculously heavy on CPU, once your fortress grows enough though. Granted it's not a game where FPS matters as such, but it does tend to eventually slow down to the point where it's not really very much fun anymore unless you play on a small map and put a tight limit on population. There is in fact a "how to optimize layout for CPU efficiency" section in the wiki, as apparently much of the CPU cost goes into path finding. :)
If you'd like Signaldust to return, please ask Katinka Tuisku to resign.

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pekbro
KVRAF
2410 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:19 pm

mystran wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:29 pm

Dwarf Fortress can get ridiculously heavy on CPU
Heh, that's only if your dwarves live that long :D Still, it's true enough.

Anyway there are plenty of games, that are free or otherwise that will run on aging
hardware perfectly well. Old games, new games, you can run emulators on your pc
for old console systems and even arcade games. Plenty to do, if one is of a mind. :)

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9394 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:24 pm

justin3am wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:50 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:51 am
I make music but I don’t have fun with the process.
Having read your responses here and in other threads, I don't think you will. At least not with your current mindset.

I mean ultimately, I think you understand that this isn't about analog synths and I don't think it's really about tools at all. You have to decide how you want to proceed. You can either find a way to get that enjoyment from yourself, with any set of tools or you can decide that making music is not always an enjoyable process for you... even that can work, if you are satisfied with the end result.

Chances are, you will continue to try different tools and find issues with each that will prevent you from having the experience you seek. You can either choose to be blocked by those obstacles or to plow through them. Whichever path you choose (and really I'm being quite reductionist, it's not like, a binary choice), it will probably be difficult but you can choose to look at it like a rewarding challenge or not.
Good points. I’ve never been disabled... unless you count underachieving as a disability, :lol: but I’ve had very tiny incomes over the years. Somehow I always managed to make music. Sometimes that meant a mini-key Yamaha PSR ran though some guitar pedals. Sometimes I was part of a synth co op where 4 of us all chipped in to buy a Juno 106. Sometimes I came into a few dollars and was able to buy something nice, sometimes I earned a decent salary and went hog wild. Well, if you consider a new Virus C hog wild.

One thing I’ve learned is that every instrument is flawed, from the Moog One to the IK Uno. From Diva to some Synthedit freeware. I can always find something that bugs me, but I can’t find something that stops me.

I’m also confused as to how someone who can write in full and clear sentences, build a computer, play computer games and make electronic music can be considered disabled. I know companies who would love to hire support people who had half those skills, and many are fine with those people working remotely.

So, I’ll say it. If zipper noise is standing in between you and enjoying music making, perhaps you should look for another hobby. I remember hating the sound of the dithering that my ol’ TS-10 used to do with samples, but I ultimately found a way to lean on that “flaw” and use it as a feature.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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justin3am
KVRAF
10630 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:27 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:51 am
Valid points, but, I’m looking for more options. I have spent plenty of time working with what I have.

Meh. Just go read my long message above...
It's all good dude, do what you want to do. I'm the last person who should be critical of another person for checking out new gear!

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egbert101
KVRAF
2289 posts since 13 Jun, 2014

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:56 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:38 pm
Does gaming provide enough life satisfaction to spend money re-building a PC just for gaming?
I would say, probably not, at least speaking personally. I like old games, so a cheap PC that can run emulation software is a great cheap solution, and for new games, I now just watch other people play. Sadly, I just can't afford new games any more.
Most of my demotivation around the arts comes from my family raising me to think that the arts aren’t worthwhile activities to spend time on because they don’t generate an income (and I’m in poverty). But she also has cancer, and therefore a shortened lifespan with which to get things done (and she has mostly lived for the convenience of the situation and for other people, not for herself). :( :(
That is awful. I hope she gets some kind of joy through art and your friendship. I know, speaking personally, that art and nature, is my way of coping with life.
I finally bought a used 27” iMac about a year ago, but, by then I had gotten so frustrated with the light demands of my new (no longer new) camera, and the clumsiness of my shitty tripod, that I stopped having any interest in taking photos. Occasionally I do nature photography (mostly insects). My photo impulses were mostly killed by expectations of frustration.

This is actually very similar to my music production problem: I have SUFFERED to make art. None of this ever came easily to me and I have worked with what I could afford. I have STRUGGLED to produce creative works. It’s not like I’m lazy. It’s not like I give up easily. Or, I didn’t. I’ve just gotten so f**king fed-the-f**k-up with clumsy tools. It has killed my patience, my tolerance, and my motivation.
I must admit, the idea of buying a cheap camera and going off looking for something beautiful, more exciting than buying a lot of expensive analog synthesizers. Maybe I actually need a change.
<list all your stupid gear here>

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4936 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:41 am

egbert101 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:56 am
I must admit, the idea of buying a cheap camera and going off looking for something beautiful, more exciting than buying a lot of expensive analog synthesizers. Maybe I actually need a change.
I highly recommend outdoor exploration photography. With a bright day (sometimes overcast is best to cut down on extremes of contrast), there aren’t the same constraints as I experience with indoor photography.

If you can afford a macro lens, the macro world is absolutely beautiful and fascinating! :love: There’s so much that we humans pay so little attention to...

Also: Tripods can still be helpful even when cheap. Depends on your frustration level, but sometimes a cheap one just to stabilize the camera for a few shots... maybe even just a monopod to stabilize it vertically.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4936 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:49 am

Since my life seems to be all about comically bad timing on investments (of time or money)...

...maybe I should buy into an analog synth setup just to ensure that MIDI 2.0 takes off like an effing rocket, obsoleting all the analog gear with its instant recall of high-resolution controls... :hihi:



(I know that won’t happen - I seem to be part of a tiny minority of people who are interested in analog more for the control, while everyone else is into the “sound”... and addiction; ie: “BUY ALL THE MODULES!!”)
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

chk071
KVRAF
18905 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:56 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:38 pm
Does gaming provide enough life satisfaction to spend money re-building a PC just for gaming? I mentioned this in my first post. I can’t bear the thought of spending that money for just gaming. That’s $600 I then cannot spend on studio gear.
It really depends on yourself. There are people who spend thousands, if not ten thousands into gaming gear. I frequent a German forum, where simracers (slang for people who like racing simulations ;)) spend ten thousands in their cockpits, which simulate almost every aspect of a race cars real cockpit (don't ask me why they don't start a real Karting career with that budget...). And they often have 3 40" screens, or a virtual reality headset, which isn't exactly cheap either.

If you're not that interesting gaming, get a console. That way you won't have to spend a lot of money, and can still play games. :) And, with something like the Xbox One S or One X, you even get a 4k Bluray player as a bonus (which is part of the reason i bought my One S).

diaper@ky
KVRist
229 posts since 29 Jul, 2014

Re: Do I “need” analog synths?

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:10 pm

I’ve been doing tributes that pay well and required big punchy hardware to cut through Big Rigs and real drums.
Sounds to me like you’re looking at using nothing but synths.
However, I would get a 3 Oscillator monophonic synth for Bass-and leads.
I use the SE-02 and it’s a real ConeCrusher.

But my Solaris and Code 8 stay home while I use an HX-3 for Hammond/Leslie work, the SE-02 and Zebra2 works fine.
I’m doing dance groove music, Bruno Mars, etc.
So I need the real analog monophonic but there’s no big SVT or JC900 rigs parting my hair.

u-He synths like Zebra2 HZ and Diva would fill in the gaps nicely as long as the low end is punchy discrete audio, preferably 3 Oscillators.

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