POLL: Waves Central

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

Which is closest to your view of Waves Central?

Good - no major issues.
49
43%
Have no strong views either way.
26
23%
Negative - causes me significant problems.
14
12%
Extremely negative - will not buy any further Waves products until it is more reliable.
11
10%
Irrelevant - I will never buy more Waves products regardless.
14
12%
 
Total votes: 114

User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4634 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:41 pm

Unfortunately, as you've skewed the poll to have three strongly negative options, I've had to put a response in the neutral box. It's got flaws but the problems it has caused are hardly significant and were easily rectified - and this is with a mixture of v9 and v10 plugins, which is where most of the trouble lies.

So, great job, you've got a poll that doesn't do what you want it to. A bit like Waves Central.

chk071
KVRAF
19356 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:47 pm

FWIW, i actually dislike Waves Central (if that is of interest to anyone... :P). For me, it is the worst of the software managers i have installed. Dislike their way of wrapping the plugin DLL's too. Why not just provide installers, or, make a ZIP with the plugin files? Or, at least do it like Native Instruments do it with Native Access. Actually, i'd even say that Waves isn't making it exactly easy for me to like their plugins. I hesitated for a long time before i installed their freebies... they're actually not bad at all though (H-Comp and TruVerb). Had to Google for a way to install the plugins though in the new Waves Central (v9 stuff)... again, why do they make it so hard for the user?

Damn, now i'm ranting as well... :dog:

frizzbee
KVRist
220 posts since 11 Jan, 2015

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:56 pm

please don't start with this native access and online requirement crap :D it tells me regularly my installation is broken because i deleted the 32bit versions of the plugins which it did install regardless of if i wanted it

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2610 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:07 am

Gamma-UT wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:41 pm
Unfortunately, as you've skewed the poll to have three strongly negative options, I've had to put a response in the neutral box. It's got flaws but the problems it has caused are hardly significant and were easily rectified - and this is with a mixture of v9 and v10 plugins, which is where most of the trouble lies.

So, great job, you've got a poll that doesn't do what you want it to. A bit like Waves Central.
I've already explained the rationale behind the options - there is no useful data to be had by choosing degrees of euphoria, but very important distinctions to be made among those who are not happy. But I agree with you in that the results will be good news for Waves.

Waves Central pops up weekly here on KVR, and the threads are always the same. Someone or some people have had some horrendous experience, while others shrug and say "no problem here". I wanted to establish, among this group, what roughly was the ratio? Could it provide any sense of what sort of damage this might be doing to Waves?

Early days and all that, but it looks pretty clear that it's not a major concern for them. As I type, there's only 10% who are holding back on purchasing anything new, another 5 who can live with the annoyances. Again, early days but if this is the broad view of a bunch of argumentative hyperbolic disgruntled KVRs, Waves will lack the motivation to make Waves Central any better.

FWIW, I've never had my system wrecked by Waves Central. It has greatly inconvenienced me - on one occasion it was down for 48 hours for everyone after a buggy build was released that put the auto-update into a loop - but I've never pressed that nuclear tick box that some other unlucky souls have. My view is that I shouldn't blame anyone else for doing something that appears to be - and should be - benign, but look to Waves to build better software. Alas, it looks like that waiting will be in vain.
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User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4634 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:16 am

noiseboyuk wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:07 am
I've already explained the rationale behind the options - there is no useful data to be had by choosing degrees of euphoria, but very important distinctions to be made among those who are not happy. But I agree with you in that the results will be good news for Waves.
"It's got flaws" is hardly a degree of euphoria and that statement really just exposes the problems caused by your "I'm gonna show them" attitude. The results aren't really good news for Waves as all it does is reinforce the idea that they shouldn't revisit how they approach the "no support for off-WUP plugins" policy and how that affects the construction of their software. Something that takes account of the available licences - which the software can see - would make a lot more sense.

So, you haven't helped them and you haven't helped yourself. Maybe if you took a step back instead of throwing your dolly out of the pram you'd have constructed something that actually had value as feedback.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2610 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:28 am

Gamma-UT wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:16 am
noiseboyuk wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:07 am
I've already explained the rationale behind the options - there is no useful data to be had by choosing degrees of euphoria, but very important distinctions to be made among those who are not happy. But I agree with you in that the results will be good news for Waves.
"It's got flaws" is hardly a degree of euphoria and that statement really just exposes the problems caused by your "I'm gonna show them" attitude. The results aren't really good news for Waves as all it does is reinforce the idea that they shouldn't revisit how they approach the "no support for off-WUP plugins" policy and how that affects the construction of their software. Something that takes account of the available licences - which the software can see - would make a lot more sense.

So, you haven't helped them and you haven't helped yourself. Maybe if you took a step back instead of throwing your dolly out of the pram you'd have constructed something that actually had value as feedback.
What a strange post. I'm not sure how some early highly provisional data analysis amounts to "throwing my dolly out of the pram". Pot, kettle perhaps - dunno.

This poll isn't about the WUP, but if you want to start one it is but one click away, I'm sure it would be interesting reading. But those provisional results show quite clearly that a full half think Waves Central is good, another third don't have a strong view either way. For those who aren't happy, it isn't enough for a good proportion to affect the decision on buying anything new from them, and more wouldn't buy anything from Waves regardless.
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W10 Pro Creators Edition, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2018 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 9
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User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4634 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:46 am

noiseboyuk wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:28 am
What a strange post. I'm not sure how some early highly provisional data analysis amounts to "throwing my dolly out of the pram". Pot, kettle perhaps - dunno.
That's not what I'm referring to: didn't you post earlier that you wouldn't touch Waves stuff because of the installer? I was a bit surprised that you had a sudden interest in polling over it given that you'd apparently sworn off them.
noiseboyuk wrote:So I've taken the view for the time being that I'm not buying any more Waves, no matter how cheap, until Waves Central is a reliable and rugged piece of software. Every time I have to open the damn thing I feel like Nic Cage in the Rock

User avatar
pixel85
KVRist
378 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:44 am

So 49% on positive side. Now you can start campaign that kvr users are paid by Waves to give positive vote :D

AdvancedFollower
KVRist
277 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:52 am

I've had a few minor problems with plugins disappearing in the DAW, but this was easily solved by resetting the blacklist and re-scanning the plugins folder.

I'm always a bit confused by the "Easy Install" vs "Install and Activate". Why does a plugin installation need several "difficulty levels"? This isn't a video game. Shouldn't it just work?

One thing to note is that none of my WUPs have expired yet, so I'm still a bit anxious over what will happen then, and whether after this happens, one wrong click in Waves Central will set off a nuclear detonation in my system...

User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4634 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:01 am

I think people have got themselves into a situation where they must update as a Pavlovian response. Do you really need to update? Why not check the release notes first? Usually, it's just fixes for one or two plugins. OK, part of the problem is that Waves created a rod for their own backs by having everything operate in some overarching framework that needs to be updated to apply a change to a single plugin. But, OTOH, when their plugins work, they tend to stay that way for a long time. (And when they don't work, as with AUs in Live, they stay that way too.) So, if you don't need that bugfix, don't bother.

They also come from an earlier time when their users were pretty much all studio engineers and I don't think their in-house development culture really reflects the way they've gone, in terms of marketing, after a consumer/prosumer market that expects more of an App Store approach to installation.

AdvancedFollower
KVRist
277 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:25 am

Gamma-UT wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:01 am
I think people have got themselves into a situation where they must update as a Pavlovian response.
It's not the fault of the users. As computer users, we're taught to make sure we always have the latest versions of drivers and software, so we receive all the bugfixes and compatibility updates (and in the case of Internet-connected software, also security updates.). It's easy to forget that you should make an exception to this rule for Waves.

The flaw lies in the Waves update system, that lets users update to versions they aren't entitled to. For example, if I own Studio One 3.0 and click Update, I get the latest version of v3 (3.5.6). I might gen an offer to purchase v4, but I don't automatically get updated to a non-licensed, non-functioning copy of v4. V4 only becomes available for download *after* I have purchased a valid license. Same should be true for any update system.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
2610 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:28 am

Gamma-UT wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:46 am
That's not what I'm referring to: didn't you post earlier that you wouldn't touch Waves stuff because of the installer? I was a bit surprised that you had a sudden interest in polling over it given that you'd apparently sworn off them.
Ah fair dos. And yes indeed, that was and remains my view, I was seeing if it was widely shared. If it was / is, its a little bit of useful ammunition to help persuade Waves that putting more resources into it would be in their own self interest. If its a relatively low number - which it does seem to be - then it increases the likelihood of Waves carrying on as is.
Gamma-UT wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:01 am
I think people have got themselves into a situation where they must update as a Pavlovian response. Do you really need to update? Why not check the release notes first? Usually, it's just fixes for one or two plugins. OK, part of the problem is that Waves created a rod for their own backs by having everything operate in some overarching framework that needs to be updated to apply a change to a single plugin. But, OTOH, when their plugins work, they tend to stay that way for a long time. (And when they don't work, as with AUs in Live, they stay that way too.) So, if you don't need that bugfix, don't bother.

They also come from an earlier time when their users were pretty much all studio engineers and I don't think their in-house development culture really reflects the way they've gone, in terms of marketing, after a consumer/prosumer market that expects more of an App Store approach to installation.
I don't need my Waves plugs to behave any differently from what they do now, so don't need to update until a future OS update causes problems. However, adding a new plugin puts me at risk because it shares Waves Central. Also, if I ever have to do a clean install or install on a new computer, I run into the Waves Central brick wall. The confusion over v9 only being supported in offline mode exacerbates this problems.

I'm a bit stubborn admittedly, in that I am going in eyes-wide-open to the perils of the innocuous looking tick box - if I had to do it tomorrow I don't think I'd get the same outcome as some luckless souls here. Seeing such atrociously designed software does irk me though, and at least 50% of the time I've used WC (what a gloriously apt acronym that is) I've encountered difficulties. It is a grind. In the end, it seemed to make more sense to just skip new Waves products altogether, but admittedly that is pretty easy for me as I have all I want from Waves right now and I have a very well stocked effects cupboard.

Very good post above from Advanced Follower.
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W10 Pro Creators Edition, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2018 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 9
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User avatar
Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4634 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:31 am

AdvancedFollower wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:25 am
It's not the fault of the users. As computer users, we're taught to make sure we always have the latest versions of drivers and software, so we receive all the bugfixes and compatibility updates (and in the case of Internet-connected software, also security updates.). It's easy to forget that you should make an exception to this rule for Waves.
I entirely agree Waves Central should detect those situations - particularly as it has access to the licence database. But there is a big mismatch between studio world (where updating at whim, particularly mid-project is a very, very bad idea) and consumer world that has contributed to this situation.

User avatar
ATS
KVRAF
6361 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:32 am

chk071 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:50 pm
1 positive poll option, one neutral one, 3 negative ones. 'nuff said?
yeah I noticed that too :dog:
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User avatar
Burillo
KVRAF
3371 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Re: POLL: Waves Central

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:35 am

there is an option missing: i tolerate it. it doesn't cause me any major issues, but it constantly forgets my Waves account password, and this whole Waveshell thing has prompted me to write myself a quick Python script doing auto-refresh/rename/hide of Waves plugins in REAPER.
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