Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

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StudioDave
KVRian
981 posts since 23 Jun, 2007 from Findlay OH USA

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:12 am

Greetings !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKa0Lv7iQdk

A 12-tone row provides the source material for this one. VCV Rack is joined by a hosted VST (Pianoteq) and driven by an external MIDI sequencer (Sequencer Plus Gold).

The piece is still a bit WIP. No filters have been used so far, I'm going to try one or two in the patch for greater tonal variation, but the piece otherwise is complete.

It's not EDM, hasn't got much of a beat, the chords are weird, and where's the damned melody ?!

Comments are welcome as always.

Best regards,

Dave Phillips

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layzer
KVRAF
6358 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:13 pm

sounded like cartoon music to me... hmmm is this a new trend in this forum? should i jump on the looney tune band wagon?
And remember, what People(A) find catchy and enjoyable People(B) might find it boring and what people(B) find catchy and enjoyable, People(C) may find that bat shit weird.
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StudioDave
KVRian
981 posts since 23 Jun, 2007 from Findlay OH USA

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:12 am

layzer wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:13 pm
sounded like cartoon music to me... hmmm is this a new trend in this forum? should i jump on the looney tune band wagon?
And remember, what People(A) find catchy and enjoyable People(B) might find it boring and what people(B) find catchy and enjoyable, People(C) may find that bat shit weird.
Hey, thanks for checking it out, L. I'm happy with a response ! :)

The truth might be closer to "cartoon music sounds like this". I tell my very few composition students that people will cheerfully absorb off-the-wall music styles and techniques in film and television, but the same people will be unable to sit through the same styles and techniques when presented in a concert setting. Context is a powerful determinant in matters of taste.

No reason a 12-tone method can't lend itself to the comical as well as the serious. :)

I don't think this piece should be heard as all that serious a thing anyway. I had fun composing the free play of the instruments with the shifting moods of the music. The method (very freely adapted here) can also be used for some lovely harmonic effects.

Thanks again, Layzer. I know this kind of thing isn't everyone's cup of tea, and I appreciate any & all well-intentioned commentary.

Best regards,

dp

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Wopelka
KVRAF
3194 posts since 22 Sep, 2003 from under the sun

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:43 am

Although I'm not so much the atonal lover I used to be, I still like this piece quite a lot. Honestly, hearing this I cannot say for sure if your composition follows the strict twelve-tone rules from the the Second Viennese School or if it is just random play, but it is quite convincing. I like the timbres used in this track. I would like to have them closer and filling more space/stereo-field, but without losing the refined dynamics. Thanks for sharing.

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jancivil
KVRAF
17528 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:10 am

Nice. It went by quickly for 5 and a half minute.

I did two pieces which were consciously cartoon dodecaphony. I was involved with a group whose label was called Twelve-Tone Music, the initial band called Cartoon.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
41663 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:59 am

some nice tones in there :)
almost touching on real world instruments, but not quite...
keeping them just synthetic enough, that they retain their own character.
like the variations in tempo/rhythm

maybe not cartoon as such, maybe eastern european animation :hihi:

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StudioDave
KVRian
981 posts since 23 Jun, 2007 from Findlay OH USA

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:01 am

Wopelka wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:43 am
Although I'm not so much the atonal lover I used to be, I still like this piece quite a lot. Honestly, hearing this I cannot say for sure if your composition follows the strict twelve-tone rules from the the Second Viennese School or if it is just random play, but it is quite convincing.
It's definitely not following the canonic rules as first formulated by Schoenberg. My treatment is far more free - I've paid scant attention to octave avoidance, I've freely re-ordered transposed segments, and I've thrown in brief moments of non-row-derived material just to keep it lively. But the primary row is indeed the core source for the melodic and harmonic material.

(I'm more attached to Stefan Wolpe's notion of a master chromatic set freely deployed as the music needs it.)
I like the timbres used in this track. I would like to have them closer and filling more space/stereo-field, but without losing the refined dynamics. Thanks for sharing.
I haven't used filters in the patch, that's a likely next step that might help tighten the sound space. I'll post an update here when it's ready.

Thank you for your comments and for taking the time to check out my work. Much appreciated. :)

Best regards,

Dave Phillips

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seismic1
KVRAF
9138 posts since 13 Mar, 2009 from UK

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:06 pm

Ignoring the 12-tone aspects of the piece, I thought some of the rhythmic properties of the different passages were quite reminiscent of some of Gentle Giant's ProgRock songs from the mid '70s. Better get some stacked heels and a cape :wink:


Good work :)

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StudioDave
KVRian
981 posts since 23 Jun, 2007 from Findlay OH USA

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:48 am

jancivil wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:10 am
Nice. It went by quickly for 5 and a half minute.
Thanks, Jan. Well, you know how it is with this kind of music, you don't dare dwell too long on any particular moment else people might not make it to the next. Gotta keep 'em moving... :)
I did two pieces which were consciously cartoon dodecaphony. I was involved with a group whose label was called Twelve-Tone Music, the initial band called Cartoon.
Perfect.

Best,

dp

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StudioDave
KVRian
981 posts since 23 Jun, 2007 from Findlay OH USA

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:54 am

vurt wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:59 am
some nice tones in there :)
almost touching on real world instruments, but not quite...
keeping them just synthetic enough, that they retain their own character.
like the variations in tempo/rhythm
Thank you, vurt. Always appreciated, and I'm glad you enjoyed the excursion.

I had a moment of worry recently. The primary instrument in my little piece is a lovely VCO based on the WTFDoveVCO, a hardware module. Apparently the fellow who made the software version did not adequately regard the original manufacturer, there was some bad-tempered ink spilled over the FB official users group page, but it seems that all ended well enough for the port to remain in circulation. Thankfully, because everyone loves that oscillator.
maybe not cartoon as such, maybe eastern european animation...
This.

I'd say you nailed it there. :)

Best regards,

dp

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StudioDave
KVRian
981 posts since 23 Jun, 2007 from Findlay OH USA

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:08 am

seismic1 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:06 pm
Ignoring the 12-tone aspects of the piece, I thought some of the rhythmic properties of the different passages were quite reminiscent of some of Gentle Giant's ProgRock songs from the mid '70s. Better get some stacked heels and a cape :wink:
The 70s were a very odd time for me. I made a conscious decision to abandon popular music while I immersed myself into the culture of Western classical music. As a result, I missed hearing a lot of excellent pop and rock stuff from that decade, including GG. Before leaving the popular arena I had heard early work by Yes, King Crimson, Soft Machine, and some ELP, but that's as far as I got with prog rock then. Listening to it now is a blast, it all sounds pretty fresh to me since I scarcely know the genre.

Weirdly enough, by the end of the 70s I was playing in a disco band, complete with gold lamé vests, canary yellow stage pants, and a notable version of Disco Inferno. Good lord, the things I've done just to remain a professional musician.
Good work :)
Thank you, seismic, I always appreciate your comments. Much obliged ! :)

Best,

dp

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seismic1
KVRAF
9138 posts since 13 Mar, 2009 from UK

Re: Meine Alte Schule [serialism on the Rack]

Post Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:57 pm

In 1980 I used to wear a black kimono with a dragon embroidered on the back, white Levis, cowboy boots and a brown Fedora. I don't think I'll be revisiting that look in the foreseeable future.

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