Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
stratum
KVRAF
2287 posts since 29 May, 2012

Post Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:35 pm

Open the page 'VST 3 Workflow Diagrams ' in the latest VST3 SDK. Is that strict and well defined? or does it leave you with the sense, "OK, where is the rest of this document?"
~stratum~

quikquak
KVRian
522 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:43 pm

:hihi: Perhaps they don’t understand how it works either! :ud:

davidguda
KVRian
558 posts since 28 Feb, 2011 from Sweden

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:48 am

Logic is probably the pickiest of hosts on mac at least then there is a bunch unordered in the second place, cubase, FL Studio, Reaper.

I normally develop with Ableton so I'm not really sure if I'm fixing bugs specific to Live or generic ones when I hit them there.
David Guda gudaaudio.com

quikquak
KVRian
522 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:24 am

With VST3 and FL Studio the GUI is called before the restore state is called. Which doesn't help with things like saving the plug-in's current size. At least in Juce anyhow.

Fender19
KVRist
233 posts since 30 Aug, 2012

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:33 am

stratum wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:35 pm
Open the page 'VST 3 Workflow Diagrams ' in the latest VST3 SDK. Is that strict and well defined? or does it leave you with the sense, "OK, where is the rest of this document?"
Oh, I agree! There are a lot of things not well explained. Seems most developers make it work by stumbling their way through it - at least that’s been my approach so far. 😫

So, what format plugins do you develop and what host(s) do you use to test them?

Fender19
KVRist
233 posts since 30 Aug, 2012

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:38 am

quikquak wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:43 pm
:hihi: Perhaps they don’t understand how it works either! :ud:
I’ve often wondered that myself!

stratum
KVRAF
2287 posts since 29 May, 2012

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:06 pm

Fender19 wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:33 am
So, what format plugins do you develop and what host(s) do you use to test them?
None. I couldn't find/have enough time / experience / knowledge for a competitive product in this field. I don't believe it can be done alone, especially nowadays.
~stratum~

DaveClark
KVRist
158 posts since 8 May, 2007

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:50 am

Fender19 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:59 am
Every DAW has it's own issues, but are there any particular DAW(s) that make a good "acid test" for plugins? In other words, if your plugin works properly in THAT host it will likely work most everywhere else.

I'm hoping to make my test and debugging efforts more efficient by narrowing down to a few "known-good" test DAWs. Any input appreciated!
There is a very strong "interaction effect," so the answer to your question strongly depends upon the specific plugin.

Based on my experience, another problem is that any given host may give you a false positive for a bug or an unexpected result. So even if there was a host that worked for many of your plugins, you will some day be quite surprised.

Regards,
Dave Clark

Fender19
KVRist
233 posts since 30 Aug, 2012

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:58 pm

DaveClark wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:50 am
Fender19 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:59 am
Every DAW has it's own issues, but are there any particular DAW(s) that make a good "acid test" for plugins? In other words, if your plugin works properly in THAT host it will likely work most everywhere else.

I'm hoping to make my test and debugging efforts more efficient by narrowing down to a few "known-good" test DAWs. Any input appreciated!
There is a very strong "interaction effect," so the answer to your question strongly depends upon the specific plugin.

Based on my experience, another problem is that any given host may give you a false positive for a bug or an unexpected result. So even if there was a host that worked for many of your plugins, you will some day be quite surprised.

Regards,
Dave Clark
Understand. It is not possible to test in every version of every DAW on every platform - so you have to pick SOMETHING for testing. My question here is what host(s) have you found most reliable overall?

DaveClark
KVRist
158 posts since 8 May, 2007

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:03 am

None.

Fender19
KVRist
233 posts since 30 Aug, 2012

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:59 am

DaveClark wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:03 am
None.
Do you just put your plugin out there and wait for the bug complaints to start rolling in? You must test them SOMEWHERE to get you MOST of the way there, yes?

User avatar
Vokbuz
KVRist
63 posts since 24 Aug, 2014

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:15 am

You have to test plugin in as many DAWs as possible. Single DAW is not enough anyway. Even if there were such, others still have specifics that can get in your way. Beta testers may help here. If you need to pick one, pick the one you are the most comfortable with.
Last edited by Vokbuz on Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fender19
KVRist
233 posts since 30 Aug, 2012

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:50 pm

Vokbuz wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:15 am
You have to test plugin in as many DAWs as possible. Single DAW is not enough anyway. Even if there was such, others still have specifics that can get in your way. Beta testers may help here. If you need to pick one, pick the one you are the most comfortable with.
Yes, that is true.

Now the next question is how do you afford to buy all these different DAWs to do your testing? Having beta testers only partly helps because once they report a problem you still need THAT DAW to troubleshoot and fix the problem.

How are you going about this?

BlueprintInc
KVRist
60 posts since 9 Apr, 2017

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:03 pm

Some companies are willing to give you NFR licenses for free, some'll give you a big developer discount for a NFR and some will not give you anything. Either buy them by yourself then or use the demo versions.

Btw I use FL for debugging because it's loading fast as hell. Also Ableton because it's one of the problematic ones and Cubase because they do some pretty f*cked up things too. On Mac it's definitely Logic. For long time tests we use Bitwig because it's available for PC, Mac & Linux systems and we have some unified component then.

Fender19
KVRist
233 posts since 30 Aug, 2012

Re: Any "best" host(s) for testing plugins?

Post Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:37 pm

BlueprintInc wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:03 pm
Some companies are willing to give you NFR licenses for free, some'll give you a big developer discount for a NFR and some will not give you anything. Either buy them by yourself then or use the demo versions.

Btw I use FL for debugging because it's loading fast as hell. Also Ableton because it's one of the problematic ones and Cubase because they do some pretty f*cked up things too. On Mac it's definitely Logic. For long time tests we use Bitwig because it's available for PC, Mac & Linux systems and we have some unified component then.
Excellent info. Thank you!

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