KVR Audio

pquenin · Post by **pquenin** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:51 pm

I have now an explanation of why it's not working with the VSTi within a DAW :

Unfortunately some DAWs can only handle SysEx messages correctly when using an external Midi port. Maybe it's because SysEx support was introduced relatively late in VSTi world (VST 2.3 or 2.4?) so even big name hosts like Cakewalk has problem with SysEx handling in case of VSTi plugins.
Reinforcing this, the not so long ago released Roland SC-VA plugin that requires heavy SysEx message support for all its features to work mention in its documentation the tested hosts that work perfectly with the plugin, and the list is unfortunately not too long:

The following host applications (DAW) have been verified to work properly with the plug-in version SOUND Canvas VA Ver.1.0.0.

[Windows]
Windows® 7 SP1/Windows® 8/Windows® 8.1/Windows® 10
- Steinberg Cubase 8 Series (32-bit Edition/64-bit Edition)
- Steinberg Cubase 7 Series (32-bit Edition/64-bit Edition)

Due to host application specifications, system exclusive messages cannot be sent from tracks to SOUND Canvas VA in the following hosts.

[Windows]
Windows® 7 SP1/Windows® 8/Windows® 8.1/Windows® 10
- Cakewalk SONAR PLATINUM/Professional/Artist(32-bit Edition/64-bit Edition)
- Ableton Live9 (32-bit Edition/64-bit Edition)
- Ableton Live9 Lite (32-bit Edition)
- Presonus Studio One 3 Professional (32-bit Edition/64-bit Edition)

I can say that Mulab, Tracktion, Podium and Reaper can be added to the list of incapable DAWs.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:42 am

Reaper does support sysex, tho. Both in its MIDI editor, and via JS FX. That SC-VA plugin works just fine in Reaper. I didn't try sending it any sysex, but I have a bunch of hardware rack synths and Reaper sends them their sysex (and records sysex from them!) just perfectly fine.

And I think in Live you can whip up a Max4Live device that will send out proper sysex... So, looks like Roland didn't exactly do a thorough test of particular host's capabilities

But I can actually confirm something funky is going on with FX3. I thought I had it working the first time I tried the panel, but now it isn't. Hmmm... Shiru, might wanna give it a look?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:16 am

Doublepost

pquenin · Post by **pquenin** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:19 am

I think most of thé DAWs can send sysex to an external midi device (virtual or real) if those are on midi tracks... But at the VST level, they don't seem to handle sysex, they don't send or receive sysex from thé plugins...

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:19 am

Not true, there are plugins which have no problems handling sysex. The old Editor Virtual Sound Canvas handles it no problem. If a plugin is coded to understand sysex (not many exist that do that, true), and is VST 2.3 or VST 2.4, it will work.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:23 am

In any case, I got distortion in FX3! You need to set up FX3 as SYSTEM level effect, and to do that, you need to send the following sysex to S-YXG50 plugin:

F0 43 10 4C 02 01 5A 01 F7

Works in Reaper (can use ReaControlMIDI, or send it from MIDI editor, however you want)!

@Shiru: maybe send that sysex when instantiating JSFX so that FX3 works out of the box?

shiru8bit · Post by **shiru8bit** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:50 am

EvilDragon, thanks for hint, I will take a look whenever I'll get time.

Weirdly enough, FX3 works for me anytime, without extra sysex'es, at least on two different Reaper installs.

pquenin · Post by **pquenin** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:37 am

In Shiru's script, there is already the sysex message to set variation FX to SYSTEM mode, but don't know if it is sent at the right moment... Maybe you have to select a Variation effect first...

I know that there are VST plugins that are ready to accept and use sysex messages, but the DAW must be conceived to pass and receive sysex messages to and from the plugins (as Cubase do).

Maybe it's the case in Reaper, I have just downloaded and installed it for some tests, I don't know this host and have certainly do something wrong...

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:09 pm

Reaper works just fine with sysex (both to/from plugins and to/from hardware), whenever I used it it was all good.

pquenin · Post by **pquenin** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:20 pm

@EvilDragon : OK, I can read XG files that use Variation FX in Reaper now with the S-YXG50 VSTi directly in the Host, but I had to download the 32bit version of Reaper. With the 64bit version of reaper and the JBridgeb version of S-YXG50, it doesn't work.

@shiru8bit : is it possible that the version of the S-YXG50 control panel script you are using is not the same as the one available on your site ?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:25 pm

I'm only using 64-bit version of Reaper. I need to send that sysex to enable FX3 correctly, then it's fine. Not sure why it doesn't work directly from the script.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:34 pm

OK now it worked from the first time without sending that sysex separately!

The order in which you instantiate plugins matters!

1. Instantiate S-YXG50
2. Instantiate the control panel by placing it BEFORE S-YXG50 in the chain

That's it. The control panel does send the SYSTEM mode message as you said, but it will only do it once when instantiating the plugin. If there's no S-YXG50 on the other side to listen, it won't work. I tried by adding the control panel first, then S-YXG50, and FX3 didn't work then.

pquenin · Post by **pquenin** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:28 pm

Ok, that make sense.. But I'm new un Reaper, how do you instantiate a plugin before another one in a chain ?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:53 pm

Drag&drop it before S-YXG50 in the FX chain window.

pquenin · Post by **pquenin** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:43 pm

OK, it works and I can also control my external XG keyboard with the panel. Reaper is great, I will have to learn more about it...

Yamaha S-YXG50 VSTi control panel for Reaper (JSFX)