Why Can't We Get A CS-80 VST That Actually Sounds Like a CS-80?

[AnX]

So why can't SOMEBODY finally do this right?

1. not financially viable
2. see 1

finding a vintage synth in good enough condition to use as a study will prove expensive. finding ppl who have the skills and employing them for several years will prove expensive. also, when ppl realise that its not such a great synth and its only remembered for a couple of sounds from a dull film, sales wont recoup the R&D and the company would go bust

[wagtunes]

So why can't SOMEBODY finally do this right?

1. not financially viable
2. see 1

finding a vintage synth in good enough condition to use as a study will prove expensive. finding ppl who have the skills and employing them for several years will prove expensive. also, when ppl realise that its not such a great synth and its only remembered for a couple of sounds from a dull film, sales wont recoup the R&D and the company would go bust

This is probably spot on.

[EvilDragon]

I think stating that both emulations are "horrible" is also a disservice and insult to the amount of work spent in creating those emulations. In particular, especially Memorymoon's CS-80, Gunnare is a nice guy and doesn't deserve such dissing, because his product DOES sound closer to an CS-80 than Arturia's. And IIRC he worked off service manual schematics, and off audio examples from actual CS-80s from actual CS-80 owners.

[izonin]

Been asking for proper CS-80 and Andromeda A6 emulations for the longest time. Urs said he really liked the idea... That was like 10 years ago. lol

[wagtunes]

I think stating that both emulations are "horrible" is also a disservice and insult to the amount of work spent in creating those emulations. In particular, especially Memorymoon's CS-80, Gunnare is a nice guy and doesn't deserve such dissing, because his product DOES sound closer to an CS-80 than Arturia's. And IIRC he worked off service manual schematics, and off audio examples from actual CS-80s from actual CS-80 owners.

Well to me, both emulations fall very short. What am I supposed to do, lie? I'm sure Gunnar is a great guy. My friend Lenny is a great guy too but he's tone deaf and sings totally off key. I'm not going to pretend he doesn't just because he's my friend.

You don't agree with me that the emulations fall very short? That's fine. You don't have to. But many people do agree with me.

Anyway, maybe it's time to just lock this up if we're going to start getting personal. I asked a question. It was finally answered to my satisfaction. No money in it.

End of story.

I'll leave this open for a bit and then I'm closing it.

[BBFG#]

It's not enough to say it sucks or it's just not right or not good enough... All very vague and subjective. So let's have something more specific...

What exactly is wrong with the available emulations in your opinion?

Now you want me to get into technical specs and I'm not a tech guy. I can only go by my ear and what I hear and trying to explain what you hear is difficult under the best circumstances.

... that's been a complaint about Arturia's emulations in general from the majority of the people who have bought them. I'm not the only one.

In layman's terms, the emulations sound thinner then the real thing.

And there in lies the rub. First that it's subjective, second that no unified voice is stating the same misgivings. As you say, a majority of those that bought them... But they bought them. And even then, the majority may not be a majority at all, just the most vocal.
Thin is the best you can come up with then. As for me, output seems weak and boosting it easily distorts it. But neither you or I are giving them very much to work with there.

I guess we could just add gain/compression/dynamics and a limiter?

19 times out of 20, I'm just going to use one of the U-he synths or HAL6 anyway. I get the obsession, I just have to be vigilant about it taking control.

[Stefken]

I'm sure Gunnar is a great guy. My friend Lenny is a great guy too but he's tone deaf and sings totally off key. I'm not going to pretend he doesn't just because he's my friend.

Yeah, the great guy argument is a non-argument. Has nothing to do with it.

[EvilDragon]

If you can't state why exactly those emulations fall short, if you cannot formulate in words what you feel is missing (and no, referencing Vangelis recordings is not a good formulation - that's not just a CS-80 there, there's a whole recording chain behind it, are you also going to emulate that?), then you can't get more accurate answers.

To me, and to many others, ME-80 is extremely serviceable as a CS-80 emu.

[sinemotor]

Been asking for proper CS-80 and Andromeda A6 emulations for the longest time. Urs said he really liked the idea... That was like 10 years ago. lol

Maybe he is a bit fed up with analog emulations at this point. u-he achieved so much with Diva and then Repro.

[Dasheesh]

digital does not create subjective. it creates objective. this is a very old argument that folks gave up on already. it's all the little nuances of analog that digital doesn't do. it's doesn't do individual, it reproduces en masse. that's both good and bad. it's doesn't reproduce the blade runner soundtrack because the ORIGINAL MACHINE PLAYED BY ORIGINAL HANDS won't do the ORIGINAL the same. it's ORIGINAL by definition. that was analog. this was all gone over tooth and nail in the 90's.

[BBFG#]

I do feel the Memorymoon version has a cleaner and clearer output. And if having to choose between the two, it's the one I would choose.

It's just that it wasn't the actual instrument I was shopping for at the time.

In fact, it was demoing Pigments that got me to re-demo Analog Lab 3 and found a new interest in the Vox. But for less than a couple of Jackson's, it became the most cost effective. So I can live with it.

[Dasheesh]

still say we need a fizmo before we bother with a cs80. fizmo was born for a vst version. can't believe nobody did it yet.

[wagtunes]

If you can't state why exactly those emulations fall short, if you cannot formulate in words what you feel is missing (and no, referencing Vangelis recordings is not a good formulation - that's not just a CS-80 there, there's a whole recording chain behind it, are you also going to emulate that?), then you can't get more accurate answers.

To me, and to many others, ME-80 is extremely serviceable as a CS-80 emu.

Put me in a room with an actual CS-80 and both emulations. Blindfold me and play the bladerunner patch from each one. I will tell you without any question which one is the real one.

What I can't believe is that the people defending these emulations to the death can't hear the difference.

And for the record, the ME 80 and the CS-80 V, as generic synths go, are fine. They certainly don't sound horrible. But as emulations go, they are horrible.

[Saukar30]

The actual answer: Doing a CS-80 emulation to the level of detail found in The Legend and others would probably take too long to be economically viable. For example, U-He already took a very long time with their Prophet emulation and that's a sizable company and a synth with a waaaay simpler architecture.

This probably makes the most sense

[Halonmusic]

still say we need a fizmo before we bother with a cs80. fizmo was born for a vst version. can't believe nobody did it yet.

I would totally buy that. Not that i have played the real thing.