Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Mutant
KVRAF
3412 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Poland

Post Sun May 19, 2019 5:55 pm

Duuuuuuude... I just noticed you necroed a thread from 2017. :)
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Ay caramba !

Kwurqx
KVRist
377 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 2:39 am

Mutant wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:55 pm
Duuuuuuude... I just noticed you necroed a thread from 2017. :)
Haha. Don't matter, since the most recent Synth1 version (1.13 beta) dates from May 2015. Ichiro Toda added 64 bit support, a Lowpass Ladder filter and some technical (backward compatible) improvements.
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/synth1-by-ichiro-toda

Personally I have had more issues with Synth1 killing the lows when resonance is increased....

Mutant
KVRAF
3412 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Poland

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 2:51 am

Kwurqx wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 2:39 am
Personally I have had more issues with Synth1 killing the lows when resonance is increased....
Since it uses almost 0 CPU, spawn a second instance to make the bass better.
[====[\\\\\\\\]>------,

Ay caramba !

Kwurqx
KVRist
377 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 3:14 am

Mutant wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 2:51 am
Kwurqx wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 2:39 am
Personally I have had more issues with Synth1 killing the lows when resonance is increased....
Since it uses almost 0 CPU, spawn a second instance to make the bass better.
Using a second instance? That's a bit cumbersome. Both instances would live completely independent lives. Better to just use the right tool for a specific job. There's plenty of alternatives.

perfumer
KVRist
343 posts since 4 Oct, 2018

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 3:17 am

Yes, I've noticed this too years ago. Haven't touched for ages. There's some weird shit going on in the oscillator section I think. Or could be somewhere else - don't remember correctly. But tweak it long enough and it will jump out at you. For me, it's buggy and obsolete. Find something else to play with.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12522 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 3:28 am

How many synths from 2002 do we still talk about on a regular basis ? That tells you all you need to know about the quality and character of Synth 1. But then I only care what it sounds like not what it looks like on a scope.

Are there better more powerful synths these days ? Of course but there will always be a spot in my VSTi Folder for Synth 1. It certainly belongs in the Hall of Fame.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Mutant
KVRAF
3412 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Poland

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 3:29 am

Kwurqx wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:14 am
Using a second instance? That's a bit cumbersome.
Depends on the host i guess.
Zero problems in REAPER - sometimes i even randomly emulate Synth1 main fine pitch knob and spawn more than a hundred instances for epic sounds that no other synth could make.
Kwurqx wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:14 am
Both instances would live completely independent lives.
Learn same MIDI CC to the same parameters and the 2 instances will behave like one.
[====[\\\\\\\\]>------,

Ay caramba !

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SciFiArtMan
KVRian
1088 posts since 24 May, 2006 from Our Amazing Oasis in Space - USA Section

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 3:35 am

Kwurqx wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 2:39 am
Personally I have had more issues with Synth1 killing the lows when resonance is increased....
But isn't that the point of increasing resonance - focusing of the frequency to a tighter and tighter center as resonance is increased, eventually ending in self-oscillation of a specific frequency? The Tone control is also bad about reducing bass as higher frequencies are selected (as opposed to simply boosting selected frequency ranges).

I love Synth1, but she is an imperfect and quirky beast! Maybe that's part of her charm. "It's not a bug - it's a feature!" I only wish she could have been further developed and refined, but I guess we're lucky for what we got! :tu:

Kwurqx
KVRist
377 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 3:41 am

Mutant wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:29 am
Kwurqx wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:14 am
Using a second instance? That's a bit cumbersome.
Depends on the host i guess.
Zero problems in REAPER - sometimes i even randomly emulate Synth1 main fine pitch knob and spawn more than a hundred instances for epic sounds that no other synth could make.
Kwurqx wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:14 am
Both instances would live completely independent lives.
Learn same MIDI CC to the same parameters and the 2 instances will behave like one.
All viable options. But, cumbersome. But whatever gets you to your goals...

perfumer
KVRist
343 posts since 4 Oct, 2018

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 3:45 am

Teksonik wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:28 am
How many synths from 2002 do we still talk about on a regular basis ? That tells you all you need to know about the quality and character of Synth 1. But then I only care what it sounds like not what it looks like on a scope.

Are there better more powerful synths these days ? Of course but there will always be a spot in my VSTi Folder for Synth 1. It certainly belongs in the Hall of Fame.
A while ago you were dissing Super 8, if I remember correctly. Among others, obviously. Hall of fame - you betcha! Joke of the year more like. :tu:

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SciFiArtMan
KVRian
1088 posts since 24 May, 2006 from Our Amazing Oasis in Space - USA Section

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 3:47 am

Teksonik wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:28 am
How many synths from 2002 do we still talk about on a regular basis ? That tells you all you need to know about the quality and character of Synth 1. But then I only care what it sounds like not what it looks like on a scope.

Are there better more powerful synths these days ? Of course but there will always be a spot in my VSTi Folder for Synth 1. It certainly belongs in the Hall of Fame.
So true for the Hall of Fame! And as has been discussed before, does Ichiro Toda even realize what a legendary beast he created? (I know he does because many of us wrote and told him). And was this slice of relative perfection by actual design, or more lucky happenstance, or a mix of both? For me, the softsynth world would be a little less golden without Synth1!
Last edited by SciFiArtMan on Mon May 20, 2019 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12522 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 3:57 am

perfumer wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:45 am

A while ago you were dissing Super 8, if I remember correctly. Among others, obviously. Hall of fame - you betcha! Joke of the year more like. :tu:
Yes compared to Synth 1 Super 8 is a joke as it has all the character of tap water.

I can't help it if you are unable to understand the concept of character or are incapable of hearing it in action.

But like I said what other synth from 2002 still gets the same amount of love and attention ? There are probably more patches for Synth 1 than any other freeware synth ever released, thousands of them. Again that tells you all you need or should need to know about it's quality and character.

Again are there better synths available these days ? Absolutely but Synth 1 can still hold its own...if you know what you're doing. :wink:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik
KVRAF
12522 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 4:04 am

SciFiArtMan wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:47 am
So true for the Hall of Fame! And as has been discussed before, does Ichiro Toda even realize that a legendary beast he created? (I know he does because many of us wrote and told him). And was this slice of relative perfection by actual design, or more lucky happenstance, or a mix of both? For me, the softsynth world would be a little less golden without Synth1!
I've always wondered what a huge commercial success Synth 2 could have been especially considering the competition at the time. I think Ichiro left a lot of money on the table but he doesn't seem to care which is cool.

I first ran Synth 1 (and multiple instances of it) on a Duron 850 which has less power than our cell phones these days.

Now as mentioned you could run dozens of instances and never even trouble your CPU. No matter what a person's opinion of Synth 1's sound, love it or hate it, no one can deny it contains some of the most efficient code ever to grace VSTi land. It is and always will be a legend.

Whether newbies can understand the legacy of Synth 1 or not it is a first ballot Hall of Fame synth in my book. :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Kwurqx
KVRist
377 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 4:23 am

SciFiArtMan wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:35 am
Kwurqx wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 2:39 am
Personally I have had more issues with Synth1 killing the lows when resonance is increased....
But isn't that the point of increasing resonance - focusing of the frequency to a tighter and tighter center as resonance is increased, eventually ending in self-oscillation of a specific frequency?
It's call Lowpass for a reason. ;-)

With some Lowpass filters the resonance only emphasizes an ever narrower band of frequencies around the cutoff frequency (and pass the low...). Others morph into an ever narrower bandpass untill they eventually effectively only "pass" a single sine (selfoscillate). Same goes for High Pass filters at the other end of the spectrum. Each type has its uses. There's no wrong or right here.

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SciFiArtMan
KVRian
1088 posts since 24 May, 2006 from Our Amazing Oasis in Space - USA Section

Re: Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

Post Mon May 20, 2019 4:43 am

You have to admire the code efficiency of a softsynth that can (still) fit on a 1.44mb floppy disk*, along with 1000s of patches! Sure, there is no need anymore, but still an impressive feat (I think, as I load my 100+gb megalithic monstrosity onto my new computer).

*a floppy disk was a small portable memory storage device that...

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