Eventide H3000 Factory

[jens]

Re: UltraReverb
Can't comment vs the H8000 since no experience, all I know in that regard is what's on the GS thread, the dev commenting that it's basically the same algos line for line.

Yes and no - here's what he wrote:

The H8000 is an interesting piece of kit. It's got about 1800 presets, each of which, because of the VSig system are each unique combinations of about 150 signal processing modules. This means that the several hundred reverb presets in the H8000 are all unique reverb algorithms, often representing starkly different ideas of what a reverb should be. That said, there are a number of those 150 processing modules that are specific or common to reverb, and unique to Eventide - at least in their specific implementation.

The original concept for the Eventide Reverb plug-in for TDM was by a guy named Dave Fournier. He developed the concept of a reverb section, the delays, the EQs, the compressor, and the lofi section, and set up the controls and worked with an artist on the GUI. I designed and voiced the reverb section itself, and did the rest of the signal processing bits. The goal for the reverb section was to cover much of the ground in the Eventide hardware products as well as make the best classical sounding natural reverb we could, obviously all using the same DSP modules we used/use in the H8000. Because of this, it can cover a lot of the same large, modulated sounds from the hardware, but a lot of the new work probably tended toward my preference for smaller spaces, at least smaller than most of the stuff Eventide was known for at the time.

So is the UltraReverb a complete compilation of all reverb sounds that exist in the H8000? Not even close. However, it covers a lot of the same ground using the same exact code that is running in the H8000. Actually, a lot of the work on smaller spaces that we did for the original Eventide Reverb went back into the H8000 in updates over the years, so they're probably more similar now than they were when the initial version was released.

Blackhole, on the other hand, is a direct rip of the specific preset that's in the H8000 (it first appeared in the DSP4000). We did add stuff to it and change the parameter ranges so it's more fun to play with, but if you turn that stuff off, it's the same thing. There is a preset in the plug-in called H8000 Blackhole and if you test that against the H8000 preset (using digital interconnects) it sounds the same.

Edit: That was more typing than I intended to do. Sorry if I bored you, glad you're enjoying the reverb.

Edit2: I should add that two very smart guys named Jason Beck and Nick Rose actually made the plug-in work with PT and the TDM system. Much more grueling and thankless work than the fun stuff Dave and I got to do.

But before I started my long winded reminiscing my point was, I've worked on a lot of projects now, and I've never seen anyone intentionally dumb down any product or make anything worse than it could be on purpose. I doubt most any of our competitors would either, the only reason to be in this game is because you want to make the absolutely best sounding gear you can. Otherwise, banking.

[aMUSEd]

a lot of the standard presets that are missing and cannot be replicated

Crystal Echoes?

[jens]

a gentle reminder that this (H3000 Factory) is NOT "H3000 in a plugin." Do your research, play with the demo. The algorithms that you can use within the Factory program are not the same ones as the full versions and there are A.) a lot of the standard presets that are missing and cannot be replicated and B.) Several (MicroPitchShift) that are here that are NOT the original patches.

Frankly I think that it is shameful that Eventide markets this plugin the way that they do. This is ONE of many programs that were available on an H3000 and it is NOT the program that people are thinking of when they remember using an H3000 in a studio or by reputation.

google it before you buy. I bought at full price and it still stings.

What you claim is extremely misleading - quite unlike what Eventide write and say in regards to the H3000.

First of all they never claimed that this is the "H3000 in a plugin" - go and visit the product's page to see what exactly they state and then come back and specifically explain to us why and where they do not say the truth or purposely create a false impression.

What they claim is that

the H3000 Factory is a re-creation of several key algorithms from the H3000 Harmonizer® effects processor

"Several key algorithms"

Your claim is:

the Eventide H3000 Factory is just one algorithm from the hardware

And this claim is false


Your claim is:

the original hardware is remembered for one particular algorithm

And this claim is false


Besides, if you read through the original thread about the plugin over at Gearslutz, you will find that several members who have a lot of experience using the original hardware do like the plugin because it does some of the same they love the hardware for. So that claim of yours is false again.

In the end everyone has to decide for him- /herself whether the plugin brings enough to the table to warrant whatever he/she would have to pay for it.

For me personally the answer would be no - but not because the lack of algorithms/modules but because to me the GUI is age-old, ugly and tedious to use and the AD/DA section of the hardware has not been modeled for the plugin.

But then again I am not much of an experimental sound tinkerer to begin with and I can see how for someone else the plugin can be very worthwhile as it is - and especially for those who are familiar with the hardware, as in comparison it's probably a joy to program and as I mentioned it covers significant parts of the original ground.

[aMUSEd]

It sounds like if you had this, band delays, ultrareverb and Blackhole that covers pretty much all of the H3000 then?

[jens]

a lot of the standard presets that are missing and cannot be replicated

Crystal Echoes?

That preset was not possible in the original H3000 (i.e. without a hard- and software add-on)

[aMUSEd]

a lot of the standard presets that are missing and cannot be replicated

Crystal Echoes?

That preset was not possible in the original H3000 (i.e. without a hard- and software add-on)

OK I always thought that was one of the classic patches?

[jochicago]

Re: UltraReverb
Can't comment vs the H8000 since no experience, all I know in that regard is what's on the GS thread, the dev commenting that it's basically the same algos line for line.

Yes and no - here's what he wrote:
[...]

I'm not sure where we have a discrepancy, but what I meant is this line:
-> it covers a lot of the same ground using the same exact code that is running in the H8000

The way I understand it, the reverb algorithms in UltaReverb are the same underlying code in the H8000 to generate the spaces (room, plates, chambers, etc). Then you have a different presentation with its own system of modules (eq, compressor, delays).

So not the same presets as the hardware because the plugin is not modeled after the hardware, it's not the same eq, compressor, delays so you can't reproduce the hardware presets 1-to-1, and they didn't try either. UltraReverb is a separate package, using the same algorithms to recreate spaces but with a new implementation of the FX modules and thus a new set of presets.

I don't know the H8000 so I wasn't looking for fidelity to the hardware presets. I'm happy with UltraReverb the way it is. I like the modules, I like the reverb algorithms, I like the plugin as a whole.

[jens]

I'm not sure where we have a discrepancy

I am not sure either whether we really have one at all... we might interpret it a little differently or we might word our interpretation a little differently but I am not sure that really matters much...

I just wanted to provide that original quote so people can read for themselves what and what not they ported over.

(With "yes and no" I was referring to them using bits of the same code without necessarily porting over complete algorithms - if and what difference this might make for a direct comparison of the Ultrareverb with the H8000 I don't know at all - but I don't have a good idea what the H8000 sounds like anyway. All I know is that I am not a huge fan of the Ultrareverb and basically can't remember ever really having ended up using it even though I own it for quite some time.)

[jens]

a lot of the standard presets that are missing and cannot be replicated

Crystal Echoes?

That preset was not possible in the original H3000 (i.e. without a hard- and software add-on)

OK I always thought that was one of the classic patches?

I guess it became one a few years after the original H3000 came out.

[teacue]

Some informations:

THE HARDWARE
Here is the original manual of the H3000 Hardware:
https://www.eventideaudio.com/support/d ... ser-manual

In this manual you will find a very usefull description of all the Algorithms which have ever been created for the hardware. You can also read in which hardware version the algorithms have been included.

Here the list of the algorithms from the hardware:

100 - Diatonic Shift
101 - Layered Shift
102 - Dual Shift
103 - Stereo Shift
104 - Reverse Shift
105 - Swept Combs
106 - Swept Reverb
107 - Reverb Factory
108 - Ultra Tap
109 - Long Digiplex
110 - Dual Digiplex
111 - Patch Factory
112 - Stutter
113 - Timesqueeze
114 - Dense Room
115 - Vocoder
116 - Multi-Shift
117 - Band Delay
118 - String Modeller
119 - Phaser
120 - Studio Sampler
121 - Studio Sampler
122 - Modfactory One
123 - Modfactory Two

Notice that Modfactory One and Two were very powerfull and configurable algorithms.

Here is comprehensive list of the original presets of the hardware including which algorithm has been used in each preset:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... S&hl=en_US

THE SOFTWARE
The plugin H3000 Factory has been created with the necessary parameters to similarly reproduce the following algorithms from the hardware:
111 - Patch Factory
122 - Modfactory One
123 - Modfactory Two

Some times ago I compared the available parameters in the plugin to the parameters from the hardware and I came to the conclusion that it is also possible to simulate these Algorithms:
101 - Layered Shift
102 - Dual Shift
104 - Reverse Shift
116 - Multi Shift

BTW not all the original presets from the hardware using the algorithms Patch Factory and Modfactory One and Two have been transported to the plugin.
I once asked and the official answer was not really clear.
https://www.eventideaudio.com/community ... cy-presets

The plugin H3000 Band Delays recreates the algorithm 117 - Band Delay.

Note that the SP2016 has not the same algorithms as the H3000.
See: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-en ... 016-a.html

[jens]

Ah, thanks for that! Modfactory was originally an independent product from Soundtoys (okay, its pre- pre-decessor) by the way and only later got included in the H3000 by Eventide themselves.

[Noumena]

What you claim is extremely misleading - quite unlike what Eventide write and say in regards to the H3000.

First of all they never claimed that this is the "H3000 in a plugin" - go and visit the product's page to see what exactly they state and then come back and specifically explain to us why and where they do not say the truth or purposely create a false impression.

What they claim is that

the H3000 Factory is a re-creation of several key algorithms from the H3000 Harmonizer® effects processor

"Several key algorithms"

Your claim is:

the Eventide H3000 Factory is just one algorithm from the hardware

And this claim is false

the original hardware is remembered for one particular algorithm

And this claim is false


Besides, if you read through the original thread about the plugin over at Gearslutz, you will find that several members who have a lot of experience using the original hardware do like the plugin because it does some of the same they love the hardware for. So that claim of yours is false again.

In the end everyone has to decide for him- /herself whether the plugin brings enough to the table to warrant whatever he/she would have to pay for it.

1. Eventide's video and PR push for the Native version of this *when it was released* definitely and explicitly said that this was like an H3000 itb with literal fine print on their site that said that not all the features of the h3k were present. So, if they have updated their marketing I am happy to hear it. Check Gearslutz circa 2012 for *that* debacle. People were pissed, people were misinformed. I admit that I bought without doing my homework, which is why I warn people to do theirs periodically.

2. Every H3000 that I have ever seen in a studio was sitting on the MicroPitchShift preset that was used for *that* double tracked female vocal effect (among other things.) It was (at the time that I was in studios) an almost laughable standard. The H3000 Factory version of this preset is not the original, the pitch shifter algo that is included is not Pitch Factory and it doesn't sound the same. The H3000 had a specific algo for micropitch and this isn't it.

3. I agree with you: this plugin is hard to use and doesn't sound like I would want it to, which is a further disincentive.

4. I was mistaken in my statement about the "one algo" I had been under the impression that "factory" was a program in the H3000 that allowed this patchable multi algo type program to be created. If this isn't the case I'm sorry that I was wrong.... it's been 7 years since I dug in with this vst and I might have lost a few brain cells in the interim. If that is the case, though, where are the "100 presets ported from the OG H3000" coming from.

I stand by my statement, though: be careful as this says H3000 but it doesn't include a lot that was in or available on that platform and some (if not all) of what is included is "recreation."

I guess, lastly, I'm still irritated at Eventide for making me buy H9 pedals to get access to a lot of their effects. I would so much rather have these things in the box. I own everything that they make, software wise, and would like the chance to buy the rest.

[aMUSEd]

Oh well demo'd it yesterday, deleted already, wasn't particularly impressed. Sound quality is pretty good but the interface is ugly and mainly it's too limited compared to modern plugins like Byome.

[AudioAlien]

Some informations:

THE HARDWARE
Here is the original manual of the H3000 Hardware:
https://www.eventideaudio.com/support/d ... ser-manual

In this manual you will find a very usefull description of all the Algorithms which have ever been created for the hardware. You can also read in which hardware version the algorithms have been included.

Here the list of the algorithms from the hardware:

100 - Diatonic Shift
101 - Layered Shift
102 - Dual Shift
103 - Stereo Shift
104 - Reverse Shift
105 - Swept Combs
106 - Swept Reverb
107 - Reverb Factory
108 - Ultra Tap
109 - Long Digiplex
110 - Dual Digiplex
111 - Patch Factory
112 - Stutter
113 - Timesqueeze
114 - Dense Room
115 - Vocoder
116 - Multi-Shift
117 - Band Delay
118 - String Modeller
119 - Phaser
120 - Studio Sampler
121 - Studio Sampler
122 - Modfactory One
123 - Modfactory Two

Notice that Modfactory One and Two were very powerfull and configurable algorithms.

Here is comprehensive list of the original presets of the hardware including which algorithm has been used in each preset:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... S&hl=en_US

THE SOFTWARE
The plugin H3000 Factory has been created with the necessary parameters to similarly reproduce the following algorithms from the hardware:
111 - Patch Factory
122 - Modfactory One
123 - Modfactory Two

Some times ago I compared the available parameters in the plugin to the parameters from the hardware and I came to the conclusion that it is also possible to simulate these Algorithms:
101 - Layered Shift
102 - Dual Shift
104 - Reverse Shift
116 - Multi Shift

BTW not all the original presets from the hardware using the algorithms Patch Factory and Modfactory One and Two have been transported to the plugin.
I once asked and the official answer was not really clear.
https://www.eventideaudio.com/community ... cy-presets

The plugin H3000 Band Delays recreates the algorithm 117 - Band Delay.

Note that the SP2016 has not the same algorithms as the H3000.
See: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-en ... 016-a.html

Thanks, very informative.

[electro]

They succeeded with the mkII versions of SP2016, Instant Flanger and Instant Phaser and before those I wasn't particulary interested in Anthology XI. If we knew for certain a 1:1 H3000 emulation upgrade was already in the works this would be a compelling offer. Who would know?

I don't think it's really worth it as it currently is, but I have high hopes that this sale means they will soon release an update for it as they recently did with the 2016, Instant Phaser and Instant Flanger, which lifted all of these three to a totally different level - the H3000 Factory is quite old now and back then they did not model the actual hardware but instead just ported the algorithms over. The AD/DA section which was developed by Dave Derr is said to be - alongside the digital algorithms - a major contributor to the sound of the hardware. So it would make a lot of sense that they tackle this now for an update.

.. and hopefully finally add the missing algorithms and classic presets.

Yeah, Eventide have been on a roll lately so I have high hopes for the future!

Let's hope it not only gets updated, but only costs $39 when it does!