Powerful synths that are CPU friendly?

[exmatproton]

12fps was the default animation speed for Flash content when it first hit the internet and most people were fine with it. For the kinds of things that it matters for in a plugin UI, I'm sure it would be more than adequate.

These days it is just stupid not to run a plugin @ high FPS levels (IMO). Especially when moving knobs etc, it should go smooth.

No, what's stupid is what I've just quoted above. The "smooth" functioning of a graphical knob will in no way be affected by the rate at which the UI is being redrawn. It is a product of the way the application is programmed to respond to input and the number of frames in a knob's animation. e.g. If the knob uses a 20 frame animation then there are only 20 possible positions for that knob and the refresh rate will not, in fact cannot, change that. If the value represented by the knob's position is programmed to go from 0 to 100% when your mouse moves a distance of 5mm on your desktop, it will feel less smooth than if it's programmed to do it over a distance of 2cm.

Otherwise it is truly finicky to get parameters at the right position.

Again, you are completely wrong. Firstly, parameters aren't set at positions, but at values, and the position of the knob is only a visual guide as to the value that has been set. If we use a 32 frame knob as an example, for a MIDI parameter that has possible values of 0 to 127, then for any given position of the knob, denoted by one of the frames, the setting could be any of four different values. So the centre position might be 62, 63, 64 or 65 before the knob changes to a different frame. Again, if the application is programmed to allow long mouse travel, then it will feel smoother and be easier to set a precise value. Also, most applications will allow you to fine tune to the nearest value by holding down the SHIFT or CTRL key (or something similar) so that you can set a precise value. The knob won't necessarily move, it is just there to give you a rough visual indication of the value, nothing more. It is your mouse movement, or the movement of a control on a MIDI controller, which sets the value.

Really, not joking. I like to work fast with high refresh rates and i notice i rarely use synths that are just sluggish.

If that's true, you're an idiot, or at the very least you sound like one.

BTW, it is not about animations, it is about update rate of the UI. So everything is affected, epsecially turning knobs and moving sliders can be a real pain in the ass with slow updating UI's (in my experience)

Again, if that's true, your experience is worthless because it is completely clear that you don't have the first idea how any of this actually works. The refresh rate will make things like a real time waveform display look slicker (or jerkier) but, as I said, even 12fps will look good enough for something that is just eye candy anyway.

Fast frame rates is something really important to me. Just makes GUI usability a more joyful or fun experience. It's just a comfort thing. I think FabFilter stuff runs at a decent frame rate and as such I find a them a joy to use, not only because of their look, layout, etc.

No, you are wrong. I'd suggest it is the required mouse travel that imparts that joy, nothing more. Even if a plugin is updating at 120fps, your screen is still only going to update at its standard 50 or 60Hz anyway, so you won't actually notice it. Those extra CPU cycles are completely wasted.

Dude...easy.

I am experiencing this without being an idiot.
The difference between rapid @60 and the finicky operation of let's say Vecto is really there.

If you disagree; fine. But there is really no need to name me things...

Nuff said

[exmatproton]

Promise me this is a joke, please. 60fps is nearly three times the frame rate of cinema and a complete and utter waste of CPU cycles. 12fps should be more than adequate for something as totally unimportant as a soft synth interface. After all, any animation you get is purely decorative and serves no useful purpose.

I think this is a generational thing, probably influenced by PC gamers. Younger people, in my experience, tend to be focused on graphical performance, and apparently FLStudio has an FPS counter in it. It's also being discussed in the Hive 2 Sanity check thread in the U-he forum.

A slower GUI really doesn't bother me at all, unless it is seconds behind...

What's younger....i am 35 now. I used loads of "old" stuff. I guess i just like high res fluid ui's...
The faster (within limits) the better, in my book

[exmatproton]

No, it's just how easily the minds of clueless idiots are manipulated by marketing. They don't know where or why frame rates are important, they've just been told that they are because it helps to sell new products that people don't really need. Because these people have no capacity for critical thought, they blithely accept this marketing hype as fact and that's that.

What a shortsighted, arrogant position.

If i could choose between Vecto @30 FPS of 60, i would 60. Nothing to do with marketing etc. I just hate stuttering. The less stuttering, the better.

If this costs me 2 to 10 cpu procents of my cpu usage, so be it. I don't care

[exmatproton]

Hehehe, we used to draw knobs immediately when they were turned. The problem with that are high display resolutions and high resolution mouses. We measured update rates of 150+ FPS when turning a knob. This was definitely a huge waste of CPU. We had to switch it off.

i agree

However, an update rate of around 60 fps is just working lovely, imho. I mean, hardware these days can handle it with ease. Another option would be to let the user choose between different rates. So "old" users can choose 12 FPS (which they like, if i read it correctly here......) and "other" users can just use 60 and enjoy the fluid goodness

[exmatproton]

In almost 20 years of using soft synths, I've never once seen the frame rate marketed, or even mentioned by a dev, or on a product description anywhere. In fact I've never seen anyone bring it up anywhere before this thread. So I'm more inclined to believe it's something some people notice using the software and are sensitive to for whatever reason, rather than getting suckered by marketing. This is not what anyone is talking about when selling vsts.

No, as I have pointed out at length above, those people are mistaken and haven't the first clue what they are talking about. That's why devs don't talk about it, because they don't think about it or do anything about it because it doesn't matter. They just let everything refresh at the screen refresh rate, which is already more than twice as fast as it needs to be for humans to perceive smooth motion.

Seriously, try it for yourself if you can. Orion allows you to set the refresh rate, so that you can get more accurate metering. I can change it from it's default setting of 40fps down to 1fps and it has zero effect on the way the GUI responds to my mouse. What it does, though, is make the meters look very choppy and strange, so I keep it at 30fps, which is half the refresh rate of my screen.

no. you are wrong

Loads of people love high refresh rates (in different media forms).
Just try the difference between 60 Hz and 144 Hz screens. There is a noticeable difference for sure. Or try the difference between 30 and 60. If YOU don't notice the difference then that's fine. Just use your own rates etc....whatever. But other people might do see differences and really enjoy high refresh rates.

What i notice when a plugin is running @ 20 fps for instance, is that it is more difficult to get a knob at a certain position (parameter change, value change, whatever) because the whole UI is running slow, but my mouse is still running at the same speed. The UI isn't updating fast enough so one can overshoot more easily for instance. Which i am experiencing quite often with certain plugins.

[exmatproton]

No, it's just how easily the minds of clueless idiots are manipulated by marketing. They don't know where or why frame rates are important, they've just been told that they are because it helps to sell new products that people don't really need. Because these people have no capacity for critical thought, they blithely accept this marketing hype as fact and that's that.

The story of capitalism.
If I remember correctly, discrete frames are seen as continuous motion from 22 fps on.
I guess 12 fps would be passable, but I would go for 20 fps.

Try the difference between 24 fps movies and 60 fps,,,you'll see the difference, i am sure
Or gaming at 30 vs. 60

[MuzikFreq]

About the fps thing it also depends on the host software. Maschine runs stuff low because looking at serum in maschine looks Skippy but sounds fine, toas it into Live and suddenly it is smoother than butter

[crimsonwarlock]

What's younger....i am 35 now.

Yep, definitely way way younger

[Stefken]

No, it's just how easily the minds of clueless idiots are manipulated by marketing. They don't know where or why frame rates are important, they've just been told that they are because it helps to sell new products that people don't really need. Because these people have no capacity for critical thought, they blithely accept this marketing hype as fact and that's that.

The story of capitalism.
If I remember correctly, discrete frames are seen as continuous motion from 22 fps on.
I guess 12 fps would be passable, but I would go for 20 fps.

Try the difference between 24 fps movies and 60 fps,,,you'll see the difference, i am sure
Or gaming at 30 vs. 60

Does cpu efficiency ring a bell?

[vurt]

No, it's just how easily the minds of clueless idiots are manipulated by marketing. They don't know where or why frame rates are important, they've just been told that they are because it helps to sell new products that people don't really need. Because these people have no capacity for critical thought, they blithely accept this marketing hype as fact and that's that.

The story of capitalism.
If I remember correctly, discrete frames are seen as continuous motion from 22 fps on.
I guess 12 fps would be passable, but I would go for 20 fps.

Try the difference between 24 fps movies and 60 fps,,,you'll see the difference, i am sure
Or gaming at 30 vs. 60

Does cpu efficiency ring a bell?

you really have to throttle a cpu to set alarms off...

[Stefken]

No, it's just how easily the minds of clueless idiots are manipulated by marketing. They don't know where or why frame rates are important, they've just been told that they are because it helps to sell new products that people don't really need. Because these people have no capacity for critical thought, they blithely accept this marketing hype as fact and that's that.

The story of capitalism.
If I remember correctly, discrete frames are seen as continuous motion from 22 fps on.
I guess 12 fps would be passable, but I would go for 20 fps.

Try the difference between 24 fps movies and 60 fps,,,you'll see the difference, i am sure
Or gaming at 30 vs. 60

Does cpu efficiency ring a bell?

you really have to throttle a cpu to set alarms off...

How about that John Cleese thing?

[vurt]

hes too tall for me!

[generaldiomedes]

What FPS is life at? That’s where I like it.

[maxym.srpl]

If I remember correctly, discrete frames are seen as continuous motion from 22 fps on.
I guess 12 fps would be passable, but I would go for 20 fps.

You remember wrongly. Or you missed some piece of information.
It all depends on speed objects are moving.
Probably you are referring to framerate of applying to movies in the past. But you are forgetting about motion-blur accompanying quick movements.

Also, if you are not familiar with gaming industry, gamers playing games which requires fastest reactions (FPS shooters, racing simulations) goes for 144Hz monitors, because default 60fps is not enough for playability on required level. This is all because of extremely quick changing scene. Mentioned motion blur might help when passively watching an action, but slows down a player reaction.

There are two more factors which are connected to each other.
One of them is a lag. The less FPS, the greater lag - time between an event (let's say touching a knob) and reaction (turning the knob)
Direct consequence of too big lag is questionable responsiveness. Our brain used to immediate reaction when manipulating objects. This is what it learned about physics since our birthday. If movement of objects we are operating is not immediate, and is not smooth, then it impacts user experience.
This is why iPhones with their capacitive touchscreens won the initial battle against competition when they hit the market: because the GUI experience was so immediate and smooth.

If that's true, you're an idiot, or at the very least you sound like one.

Rather you are an ignorant.

[exmatproton]

What FPS is life at? That’s where I like it.

Planck length timings