Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
dblock
KVRAF
2232 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Post Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:28 pm

Love the plugin but sometimes the bar thingys you set your frequencies to jump around too much. I get it set to what the plugin wants for that particular style preset and then the slidy things start moving around again. It'd be nice if there was a hold feature like you would see in a meter that you could set once the plugin decides where you should be and it stays there until you set it like capturing a snapshot of it.

jbraner
KVRian
943 posts since 8 Jan, 2003

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:35 pm

Well, there just telling you where they think you should move to - they're not actually changing anything.
So there's nothing really to "hold"...

dblock
KVRAF
2232 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:40 pm

jbraner wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:35 pm
Well, there just telling you where they think you should move to - they're not actually changing anything.
So there's nothing really to "hold"...
Thanks for the reply. I understand what you're saying but what I'm saying is that once I've done the suggested move, it seems the bars I lined up with start moving again.

jbraner
KVRian
943 posts since 8 Jan, 2003

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:48 pm

Well, I guess the music keeps changing ;)
I get that sometimes too - but I think we just have to make a setting we're happy with - and leave it.
(unless the "suggestion" changes by a whole lot)

I know some people are having problems with this - but it stays pretty "steady" for me. Of course, you can't expect it to be completely static ;)

perpetual3
KVRian
625 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:25 pm

Sometimes it jumps to the extremes. One moment my targets suggest a full boost, the next a complete cut, for all targets.

Butwug
KVRist
233 posts since 26 Oct, 2018

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:18 pm

Set a loop to where the track is busy, and has all the instruments playing, or at very least, loop where kick and bass are active.

If youre jumping around the track, or stopping then playing again, it has to recalibrate. If you play from a part where it has less bass, it’ll think think youre bass is way too low. When the bass instrument comes in, itll analyze that section, and move point around. Plugin doesn't know what part of the song that it’s analyzing. Thats where you come in (it’s a killer plugin, but it cant do all the work! :lol: )

Loop a small section, adjust to taste, done. Youre goal isnt to have it matching throughout, just on the important sections.

perpetual3
KVRian
625 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:55 pm

Butwug wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:18 pm
Set a loop to where the track is busy, and has all the instruments playing, or at very least, loop where kick and bass are active.

If youre jumping around the track, or stopping then playing again, it has to recalibrate. If you play from a part where it has less bass, it’ll think think youre bass is way too low. When the bass instrument comes in, itll analyze that section, and move point around. Plugin doesn't know what part of the song that it’s analyzing. Thats where you come in (it’s a killer plugin, but it cant do all the work! :lol: )

Loop a small section, adjust to taste, done. Youre goal isnt to have it matching throughout, just on the important sections.
Absolutely doing that - looping through 4 bars of a the full mix.

Butwug
KVRist
233 posts since 26 Oct, 2018

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:52 pm

perpetual3 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:55 pm
Absolutely doing that - looping through 4 bars of a the full mix.
Let me know how it works out!

If you feel brave, solo the parts that have large boost/cuts, listen to what instruments and sounds it’s boosting/cutting, and try to EQ it at the instrument level. I mentioned this in the other thread but I’m using this plugin to help me fine tune my mixing.

Things I’ve noticed after remixing/mastering 10 songs with this plugin are

— 40-80range was a db or two too high, according to BASSROOM. Now I cut a bit on kick or bass, or both depending what sounds good.

— Was EQ’ing too much low end out on kick and bass. Instead of High Passing the low on kick/bass, then again on Master, I just let the master EQ handle it with a gentler slope starting higher up. Seems to make it tighter, less muffled, and cutting them together sounds a bit more musical and coherent.

—BASSROOM would always show I needed a lot of boost on 160-320. Went back and boosted that range on kick and bassline, depending on song and what sounded best.

—0-20 always needed a boost. We cant hear that but I guess it’s good for big systems. That was sort of fixed by leaving those frequencies alone on track level and doing a gentle roll off on master. 6db slope cleans it up but leaves a bit in there.

—Dont forget that other instruments besides kick and bassline creep into that 160-320 range and they need some love and attention as well :D

Overall, BASSROOM can fix the master if it isn’t too far off. But I’m OCD about everything in life so really using this plugin to find out why my master needs adjustments....despite it being more than capable of making the low end on Master sound buttery and tight.

Edit** I read your post wrong :lol: thought you said you were going to try that. Now I see you meant you were already doing that. Maybe try looping a smaller section?? 1 or 2 bars maybe?

perpetual3
KVRian
625 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:25 pm

Word, I’ll try 2-bars. Thanks for sharing your workflow too.

And that’s exactly what I’m doing too - using BR to diagnose my mixing and going back and addressing that at the mix level. I’m definitely going to try to do some of my cuts on the master like you suggested; I’ve been doing everything per track because I prefer “minimal” master compression and EQ (I.e. I try to get it sounding mostly right at mix down).

What kind of music are you making?

Butwug
KVRist
233 posts since 26 Oct, 2018

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:44 pm

perpetual3 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:25 pm
Word, I’ll try 2-bars. Thanks for sharing your workflow too.

And that’s exactly what I’m doing too - using BR to diagnose my mixing and going back and addressing that at the mix level. I’m definitely going to try to do some of my cuts on the master like you suggested; I’ve been doing everything per track because I prefer “minimal” master compression and EQ (I.e. I try to get it sounding mostly right at mix down).

What kind of music are you making?
Mostly techno, Detroit electro, and house.

And yeah I feel you as far as minimal tweaking on master. I put an EQ first thing on master. Do a gentle high pass on low end. I also often, but not every time, do a small cut in 200s to cut mud, and small boost somewhere in high mids to give it a little air and presence. Minimal stuff, like 1db or less.

Then I use Toneboosters Barricade which is like 3plugins in one. Clip to get transients in order and stable. Compress it, and then limit. The clipping really helps a ton with compression. No errant and wild compression due to spikes throwing off compressor. Clipping a db sounds much better than limiting a db IMO; in moderation of course. I can get around 11-12 LUFS without it even hitting the limiter set to -1dbTP; or at very most barely touching limiter.

These links are cash if youre looking at DIY mastering. It’s tough doing everything yourself! But so worth it IMO.

https://www.subsekt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5108

https://subsekt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8418

Sorry for the off topic post

perpetual3
KVRian
625 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:39 pm

Butwug wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:44 pm
perpetual3 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:25 pm
Word, I’ll try 2-bars. Thanks for sharing your workflow too.

And that’s exactly what I’m doing too - using BR to diagnose my mixing and going back and addressing that at the mix level. I’m definitely going to try to do some of my cuts on the master like you suggested; I’ve been doing everything per track because I prefer “minimal” master compression and EQ (I.e. I try to get it sounding mostly right at mix down).

What kind of music are you making?
Mostly techno, Detroit electro, and house.

And yeah I feel you as far as minimal tweaking on master. I put an EQ first thing on master. Do a gentle high pass on low end. I also often, but not every time, do a small cut in 200s to cut mud, and small boost somewhere in high mids to give it a little air and presence. Minimal stuff, like 1db or less.

Then I use Toneboosters Barricade which is like 3plugins in one. Clip to get transients in order and stable. Compress it, and then limit. The clipping really helps a ton with compression. No errant and wild compression due to spikes throwing off compressor. Clipping a db sounds much better than limiting a db IMO; in moderation of course. I can get around 11-12 LUFS without it even hitting the limiter set to -1dbTP; or at very most barely touching limiter.

These links are cash if youre looking at DIY mastering. It’s tough doing everything yourself! But so worth it IMO.

https://www.subsekt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5108

https://subsekt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8418

Sorry for the off topic post
Thanks for the links, and I’ll take this to the DM to get the thread back on topic.

adl
KVRian
1108 posts since 26 Jun, 2005

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:31 pm

One thing that got mentioned over at gearslutz regarding the "jumping around" problem was to start adjusting the bars from 20Hz upwards, not from the top down.
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Mathematics
KVRist
379 posts since 10 Sep, 2015 from You haven't unlocked this character yet

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am

What I notice is that if you leave the plugin monitoring a busy section, and leave it running for several loops before you start moving anything, you get a more stable target. This works particularly well if the section has breaks in the bassline, like half a measure. This has been the case for me; if this works, great. If not, you could ask the developer, Tom Frampton, for some advice. He responds promptly to technical questions.

I agree, this plugin is very helpful and I find myself using it before Ozone 8. I notice that if you start moving the bars starting at the bottom, all the other bars seem to follow, IF the plugin gets "stuck" doing nothing. For example, sometimes it gives me odd suggestions for orchestral songs, like to boost the 20Hz band all the way. I boost it and then something happens where it starts to act "normal" by suggesting near 0db. Not a big deal and definitely not a deal breaker.
Last edited by Mathematics on Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
...and the electron responded, "what wall?"

perpetual3
KVRian
625 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:12 am

Mathematics wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
What I notice is that it you leave the plugin monitoring a busy section, and leave it running for several loops before you start moving anything, you get a more stable target. This works particularly well if the section has breaks in the bassline, like half a measure. This has been the case for me, if this works, great. If not, you could ask the developer, Tom Frampton, for some advice. He responds promptly to technical questions.

I agree, this plugin is very helpful and I find myself using it before Ozone 8. I notice that if you start moving the bars starting at the bottom, all the other bars seem to follow, IF the plugin gets "stuck" doing nothing. For example, sometimes it gives me odd suggestions for orchestral songs, like to boost the 20Hz band all the way. I boost it and then something happens where it starts to act "normal" by suggesting near 0db. Not a big deal and definitely not a deal breaker.
So, I think thats the key - you must leave it running a bit longer than expected before making BR adjustments.

I made a very sub heavy somewhat minimal dub techno loop with lots of harmonic distortion and saturation all over the bassroom frequency spectrum. I went back and readjusted track levels and track eq until BR targets were within less than 1db. Very transparent - I couldn't hear much difference, if any, bypassing the plugin. Very helpful.

User avatar
Mathematics
KVRist
379 posts since 10 Sep, 2015 from You haven't unlocked this character yet

Re: Anybody experiencing this with BassRoom plugin?

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:43 pm

perpetual3 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:25 pm
...using BR to diagnose my mixing and going back and addressing that at the mix level.
This. :tu:
...and the electron responded, "what wall?"

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