Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
chk071
KVRAF
20324 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:24 am

lastmessiah wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:14 am
Why wouldn't I? They were built with the synth's profile and meant to complement the sound.
Without knowing that exactly, i would doubt that. IMO, it's rather the best the dev could do. Not every synthesizer developer is a expert in coding effects, and vice versa. Imagine 1 or 2 guys sitting and coding the synth, and then they should code great chorus, phaser, delay, reverb, eq, and compressor effects as well.

Often, you also hear a resemblance to the filter, or other components of the synth, especially in the phaser, or chorus effects. Well, obvious, because a phaser is nothing but a bunch of allpass filters as well, so, obviously, the dev took the filter design (or at least very similar sounding components), and built the phaser with that. At least it pretty much sounds like that in most synths i have tried.

Forgotten
KVRist
161 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:31 am

vurt wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:37 am
yes.
I couldn't have put it better myself.

lastmessiah
KVRist
71 posts since 23 Aug, 2017

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:34 am

chk071 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:24 am
lastmessiah wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:14 am
Why wouldn't I? They were built with the synth's profile and meant to complement the sound.
Without knowing that exactly, i would doubt that. IMO, it's rather the best the dev could do. Not every synthesizer developer is a expert in coding effects, and vice versa. Imagine 1 or 2 guys sitting and coding the synth, and then they should code great chorus, phaser, delay, reverb, eq, and compressor effects as well.

Often, you also hear a resemblance to the filter, or other components of the synth, especially in the phaser, or chorus effects. Well, obvious, because a phaser is nothing but a bunch of allpass filters as well, so, obviously, the dev took the filter design (or at least very similar sounding components), and built the phaser with that. At least it pretty much sounds like that in most synths i have tried.
Maybe. I use Strobe and Cypher extensively and the effects seem like they were built as essential elements of the synth rather than just tacked-on effects. They even have a unique character that can't really be replicated by a third-party tool. I think it is nonsense when people assert that third party plug-ins are "better" for whatever reason. This is sound we are talking about, not plumbing.

Stokely
KVRist
133 posts since 11 May, 2010

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:39 am

Depends on the synth. The effects in Repro are great, while often I take off the 'verb in Alchemy and use something else. The comment about cohesiveness in a mix is a good one, a bunch of different reverbs--even if they sound good on their own--may not play well together.

chk071
KVRAF
20324 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:44 am

lastmessiah wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:34 am
chk071 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:24 am
lastmessiah wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:14 am
Why wouldn't I? They were built with the synth's profile and meant to complement the sound.
Without knowing that exactly, i would doubt that. IMO, it's rather the best the dev could do. Not every synthesizer developer is a expert in coding effects, and vice versa. Imagine 1 or 2 guys sitting and coding the synth, and then they should code great chorus, phaser, delay, reverb, eq, and compressor effects as well.

Often, you also hear a resemblance to the filter, or other components of the synth, especially in the phaser, or chorus effects. Well, obvious, because a phaser is nothing but a bunch of allpass filters as well, so, obviously, the dev took the filter design (or at least very similar sounding components), and built the phaser with that. At least it pretty much sounds like that in most synths i have tried.
Maybe. I use Strobe and Cypher extensively and the effects seem like they were built as essential elements of the synth rather than just tacked-on effects. They even have a unique character that can't really be replicated by a third-party tool. I think it is nonsense when people assert that third party plug-ins are "better" for whatever reason. This is sound we are talking about, not plumbing.

Sure, but, what i always realize is that, regardless what i throw at them, NI Choral and Replika XT, or Adam Szabo's Phazor will sound great. Which is not something i can say about most of the onboard fx. And, some are even outright horrible, like the effects on Waldorf Largo.

There's also no better onboard saturation effect than what i get out of NI Dirt, Klanghelm SDRR, or Wave Arts Tube Saturator Vintage. The closest is the saturation in NI's Monark, but, that's part of the synth, and no onboard effect. ;)

For me, i don't even think it's very relevant to have effects which fit the synth. I really can't say any of the effects i mentioned don't fit a particular synth. The opposite, a bad distortion, for example, can totally mess up a good synth sound, instead of contributing to it. I'll mention Largo as an example again: I haven't found any proper use case for the implemented filter drive types, apart from total destruction of the audio signal. IMO, it's pretty much unusable for anything subtle. That's where good outboard saturation shines IMO. Subtle use, which will give you a warm, analog vibe. Instead of ugly digital smear.

User avatar
e@rs
KVRAF
4111 posts since 15 Dec, 2011 from Bucharest, Romania

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:48 am

I use Aalto's reverb.

chk071
KVRAF
20324 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:54 am

FWIW, i use Spire's fx, when i fiddle with it. But, those are about the best i've had on a soft synth so far, and, especially the phaser is great, and fits perfectly to Spire's base sound. Again, i really think there's something about - synth engine, or the quality of the filters, which plays into that. Delay on Spire is great as well, as are the Chorus and the Phaser. And, the shaper saturation is actually useful, unlike on other synths.

I actually wrote to them once, asking if they plan to make a fx version. As usual, they said that they "consider it". ;)

Elektronisch
KVRAF
3142 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:16 am

Yes. Internal distortion (virus has amazing distortion fx), chorus, phaser sometimes compression.

collider
KVRist
58 posts since 14 Jun, 2018 from Germany

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:28 am

Of course!

What would Serum be without it effects?

generaldiomedes
KVRian
665 posts since 15 Apr, 2017 from Canada

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Yes especially if they are being modulated.

vitocorleone123
KVRist
218 posts since 30 Jun, 2014 from Pacific NW

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:56 pm

Not generally reverb or delay, unless it's woven into the sound. Otherwise yes, often I do.

User avatar
DuX
KVRAF
3708 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Underworld

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:33 pm

For me, using "onboard" fx depends on their quality and uniqueness. When it comes to the usual delay and reverb, I might use them only as a preview because I have much better delays and reverbs, and modulation fx like chorus and phaser, too. Not to mention distortion and saturation fx. The onboard ones usually sound quite bad.

I guess developers put those fx in their plugins to make the preset designer's job easier, and presets sound spiffier. Nothing else. So anyway, I generally find them useless, and the first thing I look for in any instrument plugin is "turn-off all fx" and turn the volume down buttons. The latter also being an annoying trait of preset makers - making the presets as loud as possible. :evil:

Aside from some honourable mentions [u-he], I have never encountered onboard fx that sound better than my other VST fx, and that I could use in my production, really.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti

mschenkel
KVRer
6 posts since 5 Jul, 2011

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:58 pm

It happened to me to do the opposite: started designing a sound in sylenth1, added external fx but then I replaced them with internal ones; the sound was slightly different but the concept of the patch was still there at the convenience of a single patch. I will always be able to turn int fx out but having those cooked in the preset itself will give me a instant response when browsing thru banks

AndreasH
KVRist
100 posts since 28 Dec, 2006 from Germany

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:02 pm

Almost. Sometimes i replace the reverb from a synth with a better plugin.

perfumer
KVRist
344 posts since 4 Oct, 2018

Re: Do you ever use a synth's own effects?

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 pm

Only when the stars are right.

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