Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

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PhilipVasta
KVRist
111 posts since 29 Mar, 2017

Post Wed May 22, 2019 7:44 am

pdxindy wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:28 pm
x.iso wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 2:42 pm
pdxindy wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:44 am
I'd like a second ADSR where the decay and release parameters fade really smoothly. The current ADSR, even with long decay and release, the tail still fades abruptly at the end. The current one doesn't sound natural for sparse sounds where you hear the full fade out...
make sure to uncheck Affect voice lifetime on Envelope and instead on the Audio Out module set affect voice lifetime and low enough threshold.
Aha!

I would still like the envelope with longer release time than 8 seconds... but the fade out is better now! Thanks
Ahhh thanks to you both! I'd been meaning to mention that here but wasn't sure if I was just hearing things!

x.iso
KVRist
343 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Wed May 22, 2019 8:36 am

I've got answer about feedback and they say that making a 1 sample latency feedback beyond single module is basically impossible in digital domain, but at least self-feedback will be introduced it seems. for oscillators and filters at least, I think there will be a knob for that like in Mod Delay.

Hez
KVRian
636 posts since 10 Dec, 2013

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Wed May 22, 2019 8:46 am

x.iso wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 8:36 am
I've got answer about feedback and they say that making a 1 sample latency feedback beyond single module is basically impossible in digital domain, but at least self-feedback will be introduced it seems. for oscillators and filters at least, I think there will be a knob for that like in Mod Delay.
I sent them a little idea today about maybe implementing a 'feedback container' in The Grid, where any patching within the container allows arbitrary feedback loops. The drawback would be that no PDC is applied to modules within the container, and that the sound of your patch within the container will be heavily dependent on your current sample rate/buffer size.

I don't know enough DSP to know whether this is idea is feasible or not but I'd love to see inter-module feedback officially implemented in some manner - it's just such a great tool for creating constantly evolving and unstable patches, even if the process is heavily compromised in the digital domain vs. the analog domain.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2770 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Thu May 23, 2019 2:42 am

Any DSP has to introduce a block size of delay if you do feedback. That is at least 1 Sample. What it would need to get smaller delays without sacrificing performance is a wrapper which internally works on a smaller block size... All those zero delay filters approximate a zero delay result which sounds better than 1 sample delay but needs CPU as well, the more precise the more it eats...
In the Grid PDC isn't possible to do automatically, you would have to set it by hand or better ear anyway... In general I hate too tight music, let go the grid on the sequencer and jump into the free Grid of Bitwig, let the music flow and read about micro rhythms...

x.iso
KVRist
343 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Fri May 24, 2019 3:09 pm

Here's idea that I felt needs to be implemented the more I patched around:

Add UI handle for Selector module family (meaning also Split and Merge), would be super useful as UI control element (see attachment for how it could look/work like), would enable making faders that have specific range of values and you just click on desired spot to get what you need in the moment or switch to specific sequence in one click. As for using it with input for selection, in that case manual handle position will just serve as 0 for input, while 1 is right behind the handle. So by default handle is in first slot and everything works as usual, but by shifting it down, you also shift by same amount the input value.

Speaking of UI, after watching recent Polarity video I agree with him that UI lock button needs to also hide the wires, that would basically make it possible to build clean, ready to use interfaces (you can just move out of the way all the logic and utility modules).
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x.iso
KVRist
343 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Fri May 24, 2019 3:22 pm

also, about that handle, I guess if it just follows current settings, then in Nearest mode it would latch in place specifically, and in Linear mode it could slide to fade between slots! as the input does.

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
1956 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:20 pm

1 unit delay time loops
Reaktor has this since the early 2.0 days
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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u-u-u
KVRian
966 posts since 31 Mar, 2014

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:35 pm

Toets wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 8:48 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:42 am
Toets wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:08 am
Some things must be just a matter of time..
(Containers, mseg, wavetable oscilator)
Containers seems inevitable. Also some sort of interface builder does too. Bitwig's Sampler has a wavetable implementation (Cycles mode). The Sampler Osc module in the Grid is the same.
While cycles is wave table synthesis, its nontypical wave table synthesis..and 2 dimensional..
I should have specified, i would like to see a 3d wavetable synth.. preferably one that loads wavetables in the format of Serum(there are some eurorack modules able to load these wavetables)
No, not just a Serum wt implementation! If at all, then I'd rather like to see a module that supports .uhm-scripts (the ones used in Hive 2)!

x.iso
KVRist
343 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:20 pm
1 unit delay time loops
Reaktor has this since the early 2.0 days
seems to be impossible due to 4x oversampling. if I understand correctly, in Reaktor there's a way to oversample the signal, but by default it's not. Reaktor of course is more complex than Grid at the moment.

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u-u-u
KVRian
966 posts since 31 Mar, 2014

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:43 pm

x.iso wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 3:09 pm
Speaking of UI, after watching recent Polarity video I agree with him that UI lock button needs to also hide the wires, that would basically make it possible to build clean, ready to use interfaces (you can just move out of the way all the logic and utility modules).
No, I think the UI builder should be something extra where I can select only the UI Elements I want to see there (also oscilloscopes or spectrum analysers). Also there could be cool and clever ways to e.g. combine multiple filter curves into one or customizing the graphs (e.g. a compressor waveform + reduction but with dB values, or an custom eq curve with handles for the different eq bands.).

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u-u-u
KVRian
966 posts since 31 Mar, 2014

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:50 pm

+ what I posted here in this beta thread (about a key modifier for quickly dragging a Modulator Out module out of every output)
viewtopic.php?p=7422872#p7422872

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
1956 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:09 pm

x.iso wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:20 pm
1 unit delay time loops
Reaktor has this since the early 2.0 days
seems to be impossible due to 4x oversampling. if I understand correctly, in Reaktor there's a way to oversample the signal, but by default it's not. Reaktor of course is more complex than Grid at the moment.
See here
viewtopic.php?f=259&t=528396

Just record a signal , panned left and right , right channel through delay line at minimum settings
It is delayed by 6 ms and not 0.02 ms as the module says
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15807 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:15 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:09 pm
x.iso wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:20 pm
1 unit delay time loops
Reaktor has this since the early 2.0 days
seems to be impossible due to 4x oversampling. if I understand correctly, in Reaktor there's a way to oversample the signal, but by default it's not. Reaktor of course is more complex than Grid at the moment.
See here
viewtopic.php?f=259&t=528396

Just record a signal , panned left and right , right channel through delay line at minimum settings
It is delayed by 6 ms and not 0.02 ms as the module says
Even without feedback? That seems like a bug...

Biscotto
KVRist
234 posts since 29 Jun, 2009

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:09 pm

I still think that the grid should be also used to represent, visually at minimum, the rack.
It gets easily overwhelming when it grows.
Modular environment....
Bitwig - Omnisphere - Zebra - Reaktor

x.iso
KVRist
343 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Suggestions for improvement on Bitwig 3's Grid

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:50 am

u-u-u wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:43 pm
No, I think the UI builder should be something extra where I can select only the UI Elements I want to see there (also oscilloscopes or spectrum analysers). Also there could be cool and clever ways to e.g. combine multiple filter curves into one or customizing the graphs (e.g. a compressor waveform + reduction but with dB values, or an custom eq curve with handles for the different eq bands.).
Biscotto wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:09 pm
I still think that the grid should be also used to represent, visually at minimum, the rack.
It gets easily overwhelming when it grows.
Modular environment....
I would also like to build interfaces, but I don't think we gonna see interface layout for the Grid anytime soon. And I would rather have global interface builder for the whole project.

The thing is, Grid is unique in the way it puts itself in-between regular patcher/UI interfaces by combining elements of both. As I've said, if we could just hide the wires with Lock mode, have more UI-oriented modules like faders, then we could just build interface layout within the Grid.

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