Why so little respect for the synthetic "instruments" we're creating?
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- addled muppet weed
- 105764 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- KVRAF
- 6454 posts since 17 Dec, 2009
I don't get this at all.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:09 am The answer to your question is a complex one and not something I really want to get into in depth but there are many reasons for this attitude. One reason is this.
The piano, as you pointed out, has survived for quite some time. It actually has a fairly neutral tune, meaning it's not overbearing like some synth tones which, by their very nature, are quite exaggerated.
In addition to that, the piano has been used for countless types of music, so it's not identified with just one thing, like classical for example. There's jazz piano, which is also very popular and fairly old itself. And so on.
Synths, on the other hand, especially those 80s tones, are just that. They've primarily been used for 80s sounds. They don't have a rich history behind them. So the sounds themselves, because of the narrow use, have become a cliche.
It's a good part of the reason why Prog Rock eventually died out. People got tired of hearing that Lucky Man lead because it was such a narrowly used sound, whereas the piano, violin, and other "traditional" instruments were used for so many thing.
And this is just one reason. Some people simple hate the sounds, always hated them, and wish they never existed in the first place.
In short, you can't compare the "traditional" instruments to these "specialized" sounds.
Right or wrong, they will always be viewed this way.
FTR, I love the old sounds, but that's just me.
Of course synths don't have a history, they were popularised in 80s. Piano didn't have much history in 1780 either.
Also, synth is such a broad term...
Synths will never go out of style, because you can do a lot with them. A synth is kinda like an orchestra.
And certain orchestration styles went out of style, but orchestra itself didn't.
IMO "rock sound" is aging worse than synth sound is and offers much less in the long run.
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- Banned
- 10732 posts since 17 Nov, 2015
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- addled muppet weed
- 105764 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- KVRAF
- 3528 posts since 12 Jan, 2019
Ha, my friend in junior high school bought an album by them just because of their name. He put a bumper sticker that came with it on the bottom of his skateboard. Sadly, I also bought a record that same day solely based on band name: "Septic Death." Wasn't a very good album, and I should have taken the band name literally, dammit. Still have it though.
Doing nothing is only fun when you have something you are supposed to do.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105764 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- addled muppet weed
- 105764 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
if its any consellation, ive seen septic death liveDirtgrain wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:52 pmHa, my friend in junior high school bought an album by them just because of their name. He put a bumper sticker that came with it on the bottom of his skateboard. Sadly, I also bought a record that same day solely based on band name: "Septic Death." Wasn't a very good album, and I should have taken the band name literally, dammit. Still have it though.
think i had roughly the same reaction.
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- GRRRRRRR!
- 15919 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
I saw Talking Heads live in 1984, when they were doing the Stop Making Sense show. I'm not a fan of their music but that show was unbelievably good. When I saw the film at the cinema a year or so later, the audience were actually clapping each song like it was a concert, it was so engrossing.
Not really. Tom has some funny stories to tell about the sessions but he didn't produce it. The way he tells it pretty much everything was done by Dave Oglivie. I like Tom and we know each other quite well but I've never been a big fan of his music. I certainly don't think he ever pushed any boundaries where synth sounds are concerned. Cabaret Voltaire, maybe, to an extent, but not Severed Heads.
None of those bands ever did it even half as well as Skinny Puppy. If you don't recognise that, you need to go and listen to the songs I put on the previous page to understand what I'm talking about. There is threat and menace in Skinny Puppy that Severed Heads never even tried to put into their music.Maybe if you want to think of Severed Heads as "setting the pace", you're getting somewhere. I like me some Skinny Puppy, but let's not pretend that The Cabs, Throbbing Gristle etc from way before hadn’t already been there, done that.
Except Mallinder only ever whispered his vocals. It was very effective but there is nowhere I can think of where he comes close to screeching.As NME once famously described it, Mallinder had the "screeching over a vacuum cleaner" sound down to a fine art.
I'm not sure how that works, given that plenty of rock incorporates synths but very little electronic music incorporates guitars. Then there are bands like mine, who make rock music using only synthesisers. NOVAkILL is much more comfortable being labelled "Rock" than "Electronic".
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
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- KVRist
- 163 posts since 10 Aug, 2006
Nobody sits with any thing long enough for it to matter any more.
In my day, we had the bone flute. And wow did we play it.
Now here we are, nine billion strong.
Name me another instrument with that kind of sticking power.
The fault is not in our synths, but in ourselves.
In my day, we had the bone flute. And wow did we play it.
Now here we are, nine billion strong.
Name me another instrument with that kind of sticking power.
The fault is not in our synths, but in ourselves.
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- KVRAF
- 5717 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
There is more to threat and menace in music than ODing on distortion and a bit of shouting to saturate the mic/preamp. Skinny Puppy quickly evolved to leave any sense of subtlety behind and just piled on the schlock - it's like Bad Taste when you really want something more like The Exorcist to be effective. Consider what Genesis P was able to get across with little more than a sparse drum machine rhythm and an LFO.BONES wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:14 am None of those bands ever did it even half as well as Skinny Puppy. If you don't recognise that, you need to go and listen to the songs I put on the previous page to understand what I'm talking about. There is threat and menace in Skinny Puppy that Severed Heads never even tried to put into their music.
I've got to wonder whether you've listened to anything earlier than Crackdown or Micro-Phonies. The vacuum-cleaner line from the NME was IIRC about one of their gigs around the time of Mix-Up - it's more accurate on the hoover analogy than anywhere else but it was a reflection of their early live sound. The vocals are mixed way back in that first album, but he seems to be channeling his inner Dalek on "Heaven and Hell". Everything through 2x45 spans a fair number of delivery techniques (well, other than actual singing).Except Mallinder only ever whispered his vocals. It was very effective but there is nowhere I can think of where he comes close to screeching.
With respect to the actual thread topic, when you consider the number of things they tried pre-Crackdown overall, which were done with more emphasis on acoustic treatments than synths, their later stuff seems much more buttoned-down - and may be one of the reasons why synthetic instruments don't get "respect".
Similarly, Severed Heads got a lot more done with tape and musique-concrete techniques compared to what happened when sampling and synths became much more accessible and therefore used more heavily.
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- KVRAF
- 2008 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo
Kind of a circular definition, isn't it? Rock had readily assimilated electronic instruments and synthesizers for decades, but the moment you combine electric guitars with "electronic music" it's a one-drop rule and rock would claim it (e.g., Depeche Mode is often considered "Electronic Rock"). Guitars fill up a good amount of the spectrum so that is understandable. But it's also markedly different from the electronic artists that wield a sequencer. Reminds me of when the Beastie Boys learned to play guitar and drums. I suppose a large part of Rock is a certain type of craft and showmanship.BONES wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:14 am I'm not sure how that works, given that plenty of rock incorporates synths but very little electronic music incorporates guitars. Then there are bands like mine, who make rock music using only synthesisers. NOVAkILL is much more comfortable being labelled "Rock" than "Electronic".
