Distortion as a built in effect: Why so much aliasing?

[zerocrossing]

Distortion... the final frontier...



Why does it usually suck? Massive X has a particularly good one if you put it in HQ mode, but it's pretty tame. Hardware synths with built in types of overdrive often sound great, yet plugins like RePro or Dune 3 alias like a stuck pig and it's very noticeable towards the top of the range of a 61 key controller. What gives? Is it too CPU intensive to give the type of oversampling that is needed?

[chk071]

Hardware synths with built in types of overdrive often sound great

Which ones are you talking about specifically?

I think saturation and distortion is one of the hardest things to get right in software.

[Forgotten]

Maybe because distortion can add harmonics above the Nyquist frequency that might not be present in the undistorted sound? Or that minor aliasing is amplified because of the additional harmonics?

[zerocrossing]

Hardware synths with built in types of overdrive often sound great

Which ones are you talking about specifically?

I think saturation and distortion is one of the hardest things to get right in software.

Let’s see...

Prophet 6, 12
Pro 2
ATC-X
002
Peak

Those all have really good and useful distortion. The Peak’s is even polyphonic (filter distortion)

[zerocrossing]

Maybe because distortion can add harmonics above the Nyquist frequency that might not be present in the undistorted sound? Or that minor aliasing is amplified because of the additional harmonics?

True, and made more prominent with the natural compression that happens during the overdrive process.

[BONES]

I imagine that's what it is - bringing out the aliasing that is already present but hard to hear.

[Scotty]

I have patched in an Elecktron Analog Drive pedal for distortion duties on synths and guitars. I do find that Amplitube 4 on high quality settings is pretty good to my ears but that Elektron Analog drive is making me smile. Other pedals would do it I am sure .. this one just has more options than some... analog but with midi recall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdJkzmxLIg8

[zerocrossing]

I have patched in an Elecktron Analog Drive pedal for distortion duties on synths and guitars. I do find that Amplitube 4 on high quality settings is pretty good to my ears but that Elektron Analog drive is making me smile. Other pedals would do it I am sure .. this one just has more options than some... analog but with midi recall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdJkzmxLIg8

I’ve got an Analog Four for the same duties, though for guitar I use a Kemper Amp Profiler and a Blackstar HT-5 Dual tube overdrive.

[zerocrossing]

I imagine that's what it is - bringing out the aliasing that is already present but hard to hear.

Then why not band limit the hell out of it, which sounds better for distortion anyway?

[Scotty]

Kemper is on the list for reamping duties - expensive and a few things are ahead of it on the list... also looking at the Analog Heat by Elektron but it is pricey. If you have any shots of your studio posted... I'd love to them. - Scotty

I have patched in an Elecktron Analog Drive pedal for distortion duties on synths and guitars. I do find that Amplitube 4 on high quality settings is pretty good to my ears but that Elektron Analog drive is making me smile. Other pedals would do it I am sure .. this one just has more options than some... analog but with midi recall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdJkzmxLIg8

I’ve got an Analog Four for the same duties, though for guitar I use a Kemper Amp Profiler and a Blackstar HT-5 Dual tube overdrive.

[BONES]

Then why not band limit the hell out of it, which sounds better for distortion anyway?

Don't ask me, I never use notes high enough to notice.

[EvilDragon]

Is it too CPU intensive to give the type of oversampling that is needed?

Yes. Bandlimiting only won't make it sound better without oversampling, because you can't make a brickwall bandlimiting filter without messing with phase, or if you go with linear phase you introduce latency and pre-ringing, which you don't want in a synth. And doing massive OS per voice to make that happen, yes, that's CPU-expensive.

MX is running its whole synth engine at 88.2k internally, then resamples to your project SR. So if you're at the common 44.1/48k, it's effectively 2x oversampled.

[HcDoom]

Just use distortion on mixer channel, dont use built in and whenever you have to use lots of saturation or distortion, run project at higher sample rate, 88.2 or more...

[AdvancedFollower]

Is it too CPU intensive to give the type of oversampling that is needed?

Yes. Bandlimiting only won't make it sound better without oversampling, because you can't make a brickwall bandlimiting filter without messing with phase, or if you go with linear phase you introduce latency and pre-ringing, which you don't want in a synth. And doing massive OS per voice to make that happen, yes, that's CPU-expensive.

MX is running its whole synth engine at 88.2k internally, then resamples to your project SR. So if you're at the common 44.1/48k, it's effectively 2x oversampled.

Yep, also I think the bandlimiting filter itself probably needs to be oversampled. How else can you filter out frequencies that are above half the operating sample rate of the filter itself?

[moshimoshi]

Everything the OP listed has analog distortion/saturating VCA unless I'm mistaken. Distortion is probably the most difficult thing to do in digital, you need to oversample the hell out of it. Have a look at Cytomic Scream. And run high sample rates. Or just use your analogs and humblebrag about them?