Soundtoys Echo Pack (Summer Sale)

[L-Rey]

I need some advice from fellow Soundtoys owners, especially those who have the bundle.

I currently have Decapitator, Echoboy Jr., Sie-Q, Little MicroShift and Little AlterBoy and the upgrade price for me is currently $210, which I believe is the summer sale discounted one?

What would be a cheaper and best way to buy the bundle from here on? If I get the Echo Pack, does anyone have a fair idea how much the bundle upgrade price would change?

I am no hurry, so should I just wait for Black Friday for upgrading directly to the bundle? Will that $210 still come down during BF?

I can help because I just pulled the trigger on purchasing the Echo Pack. I thought this was the best route to get the Soundtoys 5 bundle. I was mistaken.

First off, there is a limit to how many plugins that you can use to apply towards the Soundtoys 5 Bundle. And it doesn't matter how many plugins that you own. Depending on how many plugins that you're trading up, you can only bring the price as low as $100. That's the minimum you have to pay to upgrade to the bundle. (Note: They don't make this information easily accessible. You have to figure these things out on your own by playing with they trade-in page. IMO, they should be more transparent with their pricing and upgrades.)

Secondly, when you're trading your current plugins to upgrade to the Soundtoys 5 bundle, you're not subtracting from the current sale price of $349. You're subtracting from the non-sale price of $499.

Third, you should figure out the costs of your plugins by experimenting with the trade-up page. I figured out the cost of my plugins' trade-up value this way. For reference, here are the prices of my plugins' trade-up value:
Devil-Loc Deluxe 5 - $70
Little MicroShift 5 - $45
Little PrimalTap 5 - $45
PrimalTap 5 - $85
Sie-Q 5 - $30
EchoBoy Jr. 5 - $55
Little Plate 5 - $30

And, of course, Echo Pack 5 - $55 (which I just paid $99) //You don't get credit value for each individual plugin, just the Echo Pack bundle as a whole

A trade-up value of $55??? I would've thought that I would at the very least have a trade-up of $99 for the Echo Pack. Echo Pack is NOT a cost effective move for those wanting to trade-up and get the Soundtoys 5 bundle. It's a good deal if keeping it for the plugins that it comes with. Why would someone want to trade in 5 plugins for only $55 trade-up value?? Come on, Soundtoys... I know this is a business, but at least make the trade-up value the price that we paid for the plugins.

I HIGHLY recommend saving your money and purchasing the Soundtoys 5 bundle when it's on sale on Black Friday.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I haven't personally felt the need to use Echoboy or Echoboy Jr. since ValhallaDelay came out (though I have used ColourCopy and Bucket 500 for different BBD vibes). I recently shot out my Boss Waza Craft DM-2w with the BBD in Valhalla Delay and they were very, very close. Valhalla perfectly nails that pinched repeat thing (sounds like bandwidth decreases as resonance increases at the edges) that the Boss pedal does. Bucket 500 does it too, but sounds a bit brighter (which is perfect on some sources/tasks), whereas ColourCopy just doesn't get me that specific thing (but is great for other reasons). When it comes to tape delays, it's Valhalla Delay or Outer Space here. Weird delays: Valhalla all the way. Those four or so plugins cover my typical delay use-cases, and I've got plenty of other options available if so (including the SoundToys bundle).

[LoveEnigma18]

I need some advice from fellow Soundtoys owners, especially those who have the bundle.

I currently have Decapitator, Echoboy Jr., Sie-Q, Little MicroShift and Little AlterBoy and the upgrade price for me is currently $210, which I believe is the summer sale discounted one?

What would be a cheaper and best way to buy the bundle from here on? If I get the Echo Pack, does anyone have a fair idea how much the bundle upgrade price would change?

I am no hurry, so should I just wait for Black Friday for upgrading directly to the bundle? Will that $210 still come down during BF?

I can help because I just pulled the trigger on purchasing the Echo Pack. I thought this was the best route to get the Soundtoys 5 bundle. I was mistaken.

First off, there is a limit to how many plugins that you can use to apply towards the Soundtoys 5 Bundle. And it doesn't matter how many plugins that you own. Depending on how many plugins that you're trading up, you can only bring the price as low as $100. That's the minimum you have to pay to upgrade to the bundle. (Note: They don't make this information easily accessible. You have to figure these things out on your own by playing with they trade-in page. IMO, they should be more transparent with their pricing and upgrades.)

Secondly, when you're trading your current plugins to upgrade to the Soundtoys 5 bundle, you're not subtracting from the current sale price of $349. You're subtracting from the non-sale price of $499.

Third, you should figure out the costs of your plugins by experimenting with the trade-up page. I figured out the cost of my plugins' trade-up value this way. For reference, here are the prices of my plugins' trade-up value:
Devil-Loc Deluxe 5 - $70
Little MicroShift 5 - $45
Little PrimalTap 5 - $45
PrimalTap 5 - $85
Sie-Q 5 - $30
EchoBoy Jr. 5 - $55
Little Plate 5 - $30

And, of course, Echo Pack 5 - $55 (which I just paid $99) //You don't get credit value for each individual plugin, just the Echo Pack bundle as a whole

A trade-up value of $55??? I would've thought that I would at the very least have a trade-up of $99 for the Echo Pack. Echo Pack is NOT a cost effective move for those wanting to trade-up and get the Soundtoys 5 bundle. It's a good deal if keeping it for the plugins that it comes with. Why would someone want to trade in 5 plugins for only $55 trade-up value?? Come on, Soundtoys... I know this is a business, but at least make the trade-up value the price that we paid for the plugins.

I HIGHLY recommend saving your money and purchasing the Soundtoys 5 bundle when it's on sale on Black Friday.

Thanks a lot for your time and help. I really appreciate that you shared your experience here. I understand your pain. I was excited to pull the trigger, but since I did not have much interest in upgrading right now, I did not, and thought to seek advice first.

Just to clarify my understanding about the prices with respect to trade-in, the prices you have listed are the prices that would be subtracted from $499 for the bundle upgrade from that particular single plugin, right? For example, if you wanted to trade-in only Echo Pack ($99 purchase), you would only get $55 deducted from $499? That would be ridiculous, because let's say if just had the Echo Pack ($99) and then upgraded to the bundle with that, you would actually end up spending $99 + $444 = $543!

Is above my understanding correct?

[dangayle]

I need some advice from fellow Soundtoys owners, especially those who have the bundle.

I currently have Decapitator, Echoboy Jr., Sie-Q, Little MicroShift and Little AlterBoy and the upgrade price for me is currently $210, which I believe is the summer sale discounted one?

What would be a cheaper and best way to buy the bundle from here on? If I get the Echo Pack, does anyone have a fair idea how much the bundle upgrade price would change?

I am no hurry, so should I just wait for Black Friday for upgrading directly to the bundle? Will that $210 still come down during BF?

Their trade in offering is quite generous, I've taken advantage of it in the past. With what you have, the upgrade price at BF will be really low. You will almost never lose money, and if you sell Echoboy Jr., you might end up a few dollars ahead.

Thank you for the suggestion. Yeah, you are right. So do you mean I should wait for BF? But if I trade-in for the bundle, how would I be able to sell Echoboy Jr.? Or you mean getting the Echo Pack and selling the Echoboy Jr. and then trading in for the bundle during BF?

Yes, the last thing.

[L-Rey]

I need some advice from fellow Soundtoys owners, especially those who have the bundle.

I currently have Decapitator, Echoboy Jr., Sie-Q, Little MicroShift and Little AlterBoy and the upgrade price for me is currently $210, which I believe is the summer sale discounted one?

What would be a cheaper and best way to buy the bundle from here on? If I get the Echo Pack, does anyone have a fair idea how much the bundle upgrade price would change?

I am no hurry, so should I just wait for Black Friday for upgrading directly to the bundle? Will that $210 still come down during BF?

I can help because I just pulled the trigger on purchasing the Echo Pack. I thought this was the best route to get the Soundtoys 5 bundle. I was mistaken.

First off, there is a limit to how many plugins that you can use to apply towards the Soundtoys 5 Bundle. And it doesn't matter how many plugins that you own. Depending on how many plugins that you're trading up, you can only bring the price as low as $100. That's the minimum you have to pay to upgrade to the bundle. (Note: They don't make this information easily accessible. You have to figure these things out on your own by playing with they trade-in page. IMO, they should be more transparent with their pricing and upgrades.)

Secondly, when you're trading your current plugins to upgrade to the Soundtoys 5 bundle, you're not subtracting from the current sale price of $349. You're subtracting from the non-sale price of $499.

Third, you should figure out the costs of your plugins by experimenting with the trade-up page. I figured out the cost of my plugins' trade-up value this way. For reference, here are the prices of my plugins' trade-up value:
Devil-Loc Deluxe 5 - $70
Little MicroShift 5 - $45
Little PrimalTap 5 - $45
PrimalTap 5 - $85
Sie-Q 5 - $30
EchoBoy Jr. 5 - $55
Little Plate 5 - $30

And, of course, Echo Pack 5 - $55 (which I just paid $99) //You don't get credit value for each individual plugin, just the Echo Pack bundle as a whole

A trade-up value of $55??? I would've thought that I would at the very least have a trade-up of $99 for the Echo Pack. Echo Pack is NOT a cost effective move for those wanting to trade-up and get the Soundtoys 5 bundle. It's a good deal if keeping it for the plugins that it comes with. Why would someone want to trade in 5 plugins for only $55 trade-up value?? Come on, Soundtoys... I know this is a business, but at least make the trade-up value the price that we paid for the plugins.

I HIGHLY recommend saving your money and purchasing the Soundtoys 5 bundle when it's on sale on Black Friday.

Thanks a lot for your time and help. I really appreciate that you shared your experience here. I understand your pain. I was excited to pull the trigger, but since I did not have much interest in upgrading right now, I did not, and thought to seek advice first.

Just to clarify my understanding about the prices with respect to trade-in, the prices you have listed are the prices that would be subtracted from $499 for the bundle upgrade from that particular single plugin, right? For example, if you wanted to trade-in only Echo Pack ($99 purchase), you would only get $55 deducted from $499? That would be ridiculous, because let's say if just had the Echo Pack ($99) and then upgraded to the bundle with that, you would actually end up spending $99 + $444 = $543!

Is above my understanding correct?

You're quite welcome.

Yup, those prices that I listed are the trade-up prices that would be subtracted from $499. And yup, your math is correct. In the end, you'd be paying more.

[LoveEnigma18]

@dangayle Thanks! But I guess I will just wait for BF only.

@L-Rey Thanks again! It indeed sucks. I think the best way is to get the bundle outright when it is 50% off during BF. End of chapter. With single plugins it might become an expensive affair.

I just sent an email to Soundtoys support to clarify the upgrade prices. Let's see what they say.

[L-Rey]

@dangayle Thanks! But I guess I will just wait for BF only.

@L-Rey Thanks again! It indeed sucks. I think the best way is to get the bundle outright when it is 50% off during BF. End of chapter. With single plugins it might become an expensive affair.

I just sent an email to Soundtoys support to clarify the upgrade prices. Let's see what they say.

No prob! Good luck!

[chk071]

Replika XT sounds best to me as well. Tried loads of other delays, including VDelay. Still think Replika is on top of those.

I like Valhalla Delay better than XT as it has more "mojo"... but the trick is to own both and have your bases covered because they're tools in a toolbox. Not much need for Echoboy at that point, even though it can still do some things different, as they all can. I also have Tekturon from D16 and probably one or two more delays I can't remember. I've tried the Soundtoys ones and, had they been on sale when I was buying, probably would've gone that route (and that was before VDelay). Now... now I'd say if you can get a good upgrade price because you own some, go for it - they're great. If you don't, then you should look at others as well, namely Valhalla Delay and Replika XT - or both.

At the end of the day, if you're adding to a well-equipped toolbox because you want to and you can afford to, Soundtoys is still great, and $99 for those plugins is definitely worth it.

One big advantage of VDelay is the CPU consumption. Replika XT is quite heavy in that regard. But... it sounds so damn sweet that i wouldn't part with it. For anything more basic, and, if i don't mind the saturation, i use Waves H-Delay, which sounds damn fine as well.

[perpetual3]

I am a certifiable delay slut. My first delay plugin was the PSP Lexicon 42, purchased on release. I have and use nearly every delay mentioned here. Many would say it’s a “waste” of money, but I love getting lost in depth and dimension.

I think everything has been said about Soundtoys. As far as the delays go, i think they sound great and many of the other effects are very good as well.

Two delays that I haven’t seen mentioned here are Diffusion and Modnetic. I love both. Modnetic is an absolutely beautiful delay. In fact, it’s much more than a delay since it has a chorus/flanger/phaser and convoluting reverb. If you are going for. the subbed out space delay sound, it absolutely nails it. Diffusion is a delay/reverb effect which is best experienced by using it since it’s capable of generating very unique sounds.

Another plugin which doesn’t get ANY attention is Soniccharge Permut8. It’s ostensibly a 12 bit FSU effect with amazing saturation but it produces some absolutely spectacular delays and even a spectral reverb.

And another delay that I love is Toneboosters Reelbus 4. Using the drive EQ, the feedback really breaks up nicely. I don’t have another delay that does it quite so well.

All that being said, there is something sonically special about Valhalla Delay. It’s one of those plugins that after just a short time with it I had to have it. And if you search my posts, you’ll read that I wasn’t that hyped about it. The way the parameters interact with each other is something special. But it can’t reproduce Modnetic.

If you want ONE delay, I would say get Valhalla. But the Soundtoys delays will be more versatile. And with the bundle im constantly using Phasemistress, Panman and Primetime together. Personally, I don’t want to stick with only one delay. They each impart their own special vibe. But I have a feeling that the GUI on the soundtoys make me less inclined to use them.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

I am a certifiable delay slut. My first delay plugin was the PSP Lexicon 42, purchased on release. I have and use nearly every delay mentioned here. Many would say it’s a “waste” of money, but I love getting lost in depth and dimension.

I think everything has been said about Soundtoys. As far as the delays go, i think they sound great and many of the other effects are very good as well.

Two delays that I haven’t seen mentioned here are Diffusion and Modnetic. I love both. Modnetic is an absolutely beautiful delay. In fact, it’s much more than a delay since it has a chorus/flanger/phaser and convoluting reverb. If you are going for. the subbed out space delay sound, it absolutely nails it. Diffusion is a delay/reverb effect which is best experienced by using it since it’s capable of generating very unique sounds.

Another plugin which doesn’t get ANY attention is Soniccharge Permut8. It’s ostensibly a 12 bit FSU effect with amazing saturation but it produces some absolutely spectacular delays and even a spectral reverb.

And another delay that I love is Toneboosters Reelbus 4. Using the drive EQ, the feedback really breaks up nicely. I don’t have another delay that does it quite so well.

All that being said, there is something sonically special about Valhalla Delay. It’s one of those plugins that after just a short time with it I had to have it. And if you search my posts, you’ll read that I wasn’t that hyped about it. The way the parameters interact with each other is something special. But it can’t reproduce Modnetic.

If you want ONE delay, I would say get Valhalla. But the Soundtoys delays will be more versatile. And with the bundle im constantly using Phasemistress, Panman and Primetime together. Personally, I don’t want to stick with only one delay. They each impart their own special vibe. But I have a feeling that the GUI on the soundtoys make me less inclined to use them.

Diffusion is great! And I also forgot to mention Permut8, which is wild. Tried Modnetic, but I remember feeling like it was a little constrained, like it had a safety cap so the repeats didn't get me into crazy territory, a la Ohmboyz. I pitted it against Outer Space, and ended up going with that one (Since sold).

I'm sure I will eventually own VDelay, but it definitely isn't a priority. Of course, being VDSP, I don't have to feel that 'gotta get on the intro-price' pressure. Will just keep demoing until something about it gets under my skin, becoming indispensable...or not

[perpetual3]

I am a certifiable delay slut. My first delay plugin was the PSP Lexicon 42, purchased on release. I have and use nearly every delay mentioned here. Many would say it’s a “waste” of money, but I love getting lost in depth and dimension.

I think everything has been said about Soundtoys. As far as the delays go, i think they sound great and many of the other effects are very good as well.

Two delays that I haven’t seen mentioned here are Diffusion and Modnetic. I love both. Modnetic is an absolutely beautiful delay. In fact, it’s much more than a delay since it has a chorus/flanger/phaser and convoluting reverb. If you are going for. the subbed out space delay sound, it absolutely nails it. Diffusion is a delay/reverb effect which is best experienced by using it since it’s capable of generating very unique sounds.

Another plugin which doesn’t get ANY attention is Soniccharge Permut8. It’s ostensibly a 12 bit FSU effect with amazing saturation but it produces some absolutely spectacular delays and even a spectral reverb.

And another delay that I love is Toneboosters Reelbus 4. Using the drive EQ, the feedback really breaks up nicely. I don’t have another delay that does it quite so well.

All that being said, there is something sonically special about Valhalla Delay. It’s one of those plugins that after just a short time with it I had to have it. And if you search my posts, you’ll read that I wasn’t that hyped about it. The way the parameters interact with each other is something special. But it can’t reproduce Modnetic.

If you want ONE delay, I would say get Valhalla. But the Soundtoys delays will be more versatile. And with the bundle im constantly using Phasemistress, Panman and Primetime together. Personally, I don’t want to stick with only one delay. They each impart their own special vibe. But I have a feeling that the GUI on the soundtoys make me less inclined to use them.

Diffusion is great! And I also forgot to mention Permut8, which is wild. Tried Modnetic, but I remember feeling like it was a little constrained, like it had a safety cap so the repeats didn't get me into crazy territory, a la Ohmboyz. I pitted it against Outer Space, and ended up going with that one (Since sold).

I'm sure I will eventually own VDelay, but it definitely isn't a priority. Of course, being VDSP, I don't have to feel that 'gotta get on the intro-price' pressure. Will just keep demoing until something about it gets under my skin, becoming indispensable...or not

Wild, Modnetic is one of my go goes for screeching feedback. The key is to dial it in using the character modes, drive the input and boost the repeats feedback and level. I have kind of the opposite experience that you do - there are too many parameters to dial the feedback as opposed to VDelay. Download the demo again, and start with one of the basic channel / chain reaction presets. Also, the character/noise/phaser/ reverb by itself is capable of such lush texture. In my experiments in exploring the dub aesthetic I’ve made subtly evolving lush harmonic textures using just one note bass from PortaFM and Modnetic (with the drums and “hi hats” coming from a 909 kick going though Permut8’s multi tap delay, creating hats from the click of the kick).

Another plugin not mentioned is PSP 608MD. It’s a great mutlitap Delay with flexible feedback, decent reverb and filters. Another one hampers by a terrible GUI.

VDelay’s feedback is really spectacular however.

Back on topic, you really can’t go wrong with Soundtoys. There isn’t much that’s technically better, and certainly not a lot like PrimalTap (i could never get the PSP 42 to sound like PrimalTap and I can’t work with that surper small GUI anyway).

[gentleclockdivider]

The one thing you'll get in SoundToys Primal Tap that I don't think is present in Replika XT or Valhalla Delay is Sample Rate Modulation. If you've heard a Daniel Lanois production from the last 35 years you've heard the Lexicon PrimeTime delay that Primal Tap is based on. Back in the day Lexicon and other companies extended delay time by reducing sample rate, therefore reducing the bandwidth. You can modulate it either continuously or in 1, 2,4 and 8x multiples with crazy results, especially with feedback. Not many other delays besides the Unfiltered Audio Sandman and PSP's Lexicon PCM42 have

Vallhalla in digital mode set to past ERA and age around 50% adds some mojo

[perpetual3]

The one thing you'll get in SoundToys Primal Tap that I don't think is present in Replika XT or Valhalla Delay is Sample Rate Modulation. If you've heard a Daniel Lanois production from the last 35 years you've heard the Lexicon PrimeTime delay that Primal Tap is based on. Back in the day Lexicon and other companies extended delay time by reducing sample rate, therefore reducing the bandwidth. You can modulate it either continuously or in 1, 2,4 and 8x multiples with crazy results, especially with feedback. Not many other delays besides the Unfiltered Audio Sandman and PSP's Lexicon PCM42 have

Vallhalla in digital mode set to past ERA and age around 50% adds some mojo

Is that actually changing the sampling rate though?

[Russell Grand]

The Echo Pack includes EchoBoy • Crystallizer • PrimalTap • EchoBoy Jr. • Little PrimalTap. It can be had at JRR for $83 with code. That's $33 more than Valhalla Delay. Frankly I think it's worth getting the Echo Pack over VDelay at that price. Vdelay is very nice indeed. In terms of audio quality I would rank them in at the same level. Having essentially similar effects as VDelay but as individual plugins with the Echo Pack will make Echo Pack more versatile. IMO Soundtoys strike a balance between "go to" effects with an added bit of zing. Where-as VDelay is better for "out there" effects. Try the demos and decide for yourself.

What's the JRR code, plexuss? I always forget it. Is it "FORUM"? Thanks!

[Russell Grand]

The glory days of Soundtoys are well behind them. I have the bundle but it gets used less and less. If I were starting now I definitely wouldn't buy into the range.

Got to kindly disagree with you, Soundtoys are still some of the best creative plugs on the market. And unlike most people here, I like the GUIs, especially those of the newer plugs like Primal Tap, Echoboy Jr. and Little Alterboy. The black GUIs aren't the best, but they are decent and functional.